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Image for Inside Sex On Premises Venues

Inside Sex On Premises Venues

Every night, hundreds of men hook up inside Sex On Premises Venues across Australia. Some are out and proud members of our gay community, while others have a wife and kids at home. Same Same probes the places guys go to get off.

Studies have found that the majority of men under 60 think about sex at least once a day. The theory is that men are ‘hard wired’ to have more sex in order to pass on their genetic material. But if sex is only for passing your genetics onto the next generation, where does that leave gay men?

Often portrayed as sex hungry beasts on the prowl for whatever we can get, some people still believe gay men are ready to seduce heterosexuals into our clutches or worse, rape men who wont submit.

The reality of the situation is that there are many men who find themselves in same-sex situations that may not, or never will, identify as gay. Bisexuality, while strangely mistrusted some gay men, seems far more common now than in modern history. Then there are the men who engage in sexual activity with other men and never identify as gay or bisexual. These ‘men who have sex with men’ (MSM) choose not to accept the social identifier of ‘gay’ for a variety of reasons, from cultural pressure to a lack of identification with LGBT culture. Many of these men fall between the cracks of Gay and Heterosexual, but like any other man have similar urges and needs.

Finding each other

So if men have these primal urges to engage in sex, often with people of the same gender, how would you go about meeting these possible sex partners? 200 years ago when homosexuality was illegal your options were limited.

There are records of men meeting other men for sex dating back to the fifth-tenth century, back when public communal bathing was common. The public baths were a Greek tradition way back in the sixth century BC and while in the West public bathing is pretty uncommon, it still occurs in some European and Asian cultures.

While bath houses were often a place for men to meet like minded men for a bit of ‘how’s your father?’, it was certainly not limited to them – gyms, public parks, movie theatres and toilet blocks were also possible cruising areas… and while homosexuality was illegal, some entrepreneurial business owners were prepared to overlook activity in their venues for the money it bought in and sex on premises venues (or SOPV’s) were officially born.

Described as ‘places where it was safe to be gay’, it’s the real reason it was ‘fun to stay at the YMCA’. Safer did not always mean safe though, with some venues seeing regular raids by the police with both patrons and owners appearing before the courts in both America and Europe.

With the rise of the gay rights movement there was a sharp decline in raids on venues which allowed homosexual activity, largely due to the difficulty in prosecuting the patrons of the venue, along with the lack of interest from the general public in such “victimless” crimes.

With the last of the raids occurring in the early 2000s, only in China has there been a raid in the last five years.

Local hotspots

In Australia the first gay Sauna was the Bondi Junction Steam Baths, which opened in 1967.

In most saunas all patrons are given a locker in which they put their clothes, and wear a towel around their waist (or over the shoulder if they want to show off the goods!). With saunas you often have access to facilities like steam rooms, spas and, in some, swimming pools.

Of course, not all SOPV’s are saunas. Cruise Clubs provide a different atmosphere. Patrons keep their clothes on (for most of the time) and the venue tends to be made up more of a maze, with private cubicles available for use, some even with theme rooms.

Whatever the venue, lighting is usually kept low to set the mood, and there is always a ‘dark area’.

Australia’s oldest running SOPV is Ken’s Karate Klub, affectionately known as Ken’s or KKK. The venue was recently in the spotlight after NSW transport manager David Campbell was filmed leaving there one night. A media circus ensued with even a heterosexual Daily Telegraph reporter visiting the venue and giving his ‘horrified’ accounts of what he saw go on there (which if you read the article, was very little).

While police raids of SOPV’s no longer occur it seems the media can cause just as much damage to the business of a venue. Originally the idea for this article started all the way back in March of this year, but it was almost impossible to chat to someone who owned or ran a SOPV. I contacted both Ken’s in Sydney and Club 80 in Melbourne but even after repeated calls no one wanted to chat.

Sauna sessions

Luckily I managed to catch the guys from Bay City Saunas who run a group of saunas across Melbourne ranging from inner city, suburban and outer suburbs, including arguably the best gay sauna in Australia, Wet On Wellington.

Shane Gardner, has been working for Wet On Wellington for a number of years, but before that was a customer of the venue himself. “I had been going to SOPV’s since about 1996. I was a late bloomer and didn’t come out ‘till then! I got to know the owners at Wet and after a few years they asked me to become a manager. I had a background in bus management which I had worked in for 28 years.

“With this particular venue we are designing it more around a social place, rather than just being a SOPV. We get a lot of people who come in on the weekends who just want to relax and be entertained, relax in the courtyard and sun deck area and use the swimming pool. The cruising area is really secondary to them.

“Somewhere like Wet On Wellington, Monday to Friday, the majority of our customers, probably around 80%, don’t identify as gay. On weekends the majority identify as gay because they are out at the clubs, but on Monday to Friday they are business people, husbands, that kind of thing. And you need to cater to them – those who are just ‘blow and go’. They just come in, do their stuff and they are out again.

“But then there are those who come in, and want to feel part of the scene, they want to feel they belong somewhere. So they want to come and stay and be entertained. They want to feel safe and feel good about themselves, have a drink, watch some telly, have a swim in the pool, without the rush or hiding or that sort of thing. They want to talk, they don’t want to feel they have to fly under the radar like you do with some other saunas.

“The best promotion is word-of-mouth but that does not always happen. If someone comes in and doesn’t get their rocks off, then they might conclude there must be something wrong with the venue, not that they are ugly or anything!” Shane laughs. “Reality strikes. They might say ‘Wet on Wellington is crap, no one wants to play there!’ Its just like any other business, it does not matter if we are selling cars or whatever, its important that we are a professional organisation. We strive to provide all our clients with a safe and secure venue that is clean and tidy.”

Getting Wet

Adam Hinds has been manager of Wet in Brisbane (no relation to the Melbourne sauna) for eight years out of the thirteen years it has been open.

“Wet Spa and Sauna is located in Bowen Hills just outside the fortitude valley area in Brisbane. It’s on two levels – our facilities include a swimming pool, steam room, dry sauna and spa. There’s a cafe with free internet terminals, a dark maze area, sling room, lots of private rooms, glory hole rooms and a porn lounge area,” Adam explains.

“In my view a good SOPV is a clean one with condoms and lube readily available, friendly staff, fitted out with quality furnishings and well maintained. It is nice to see a venue put money back into its business for its customers’ comfort.

“They are a safe place to go without the worry of harassment or fear. You can remain anonymous, You can meet guys you won’t find out on the scene and you can see who you are negotiating sex with for real unlike a five year old photograph on the net.

“One of the biggest challenges is getting the safe sex message across to people,” he adds. Openly gay guys tend to already be quite knowledgeable, but a lot of clientele are bi, and don’t have the exposure to safe sex campaigns. Venues and beats are the only point at which they come into contact with the gay community.”

SOPVs used to be thought of as a cash cows, but whilst they are still viable businesses, gay men have more avenues to search for sex these days, says Adam.

“The internet has had a massive effect not just on SOPV’s but the whole gay scene. Once upon a time guys would ether go to a gay club or sex venue in hope of meeting guys, whereas now they don’t even have to leave the front door!”

I ask Adam what challenges he thinks SOPV face in the future. Will technology see the fall of the SOPV as we know it today?

“We have seen the rise of the internet, more venues and private sex parties, and I think now we are seeing mobile technology with location services such as iPhone it’s getting easier and easier to find other like minded men,” he replies.

“But even if you find someone on the internet you still need a place to go! I think venues need to show value for money, have a good presence in media, and as with most types of business need to be driven. I think we will find SOPV’s around for many more years to come.”

Are you a sauna-goer?

”’Ooh creepy!” Jaymes responds when I ask him about SOPV’s. From Brisbane, Jaymes is 23 and self described as an ‘experimental artist, bottle shop attendant and professional procrastinator’. Jaymes has never been into a SOPV. “I just imagine someone rubbing me up and going ‘Hey baby!’ and honestly I’d have no idea what to do. And in the dark what’s more! It’s too impersonal.

“I don’t have sex with people I don’t know or trust or want something a little more from. There’s a scene in Latter Days where he’s trying to have a conversation with the guy licking out his ass that sums it up for me. I have always been of the opinion that SOPV are only for people who are in the closet, sex addicts or as my new house mate says, ‘go at the quiet times to pick off the leftovers because they can’t get any otherwise’. Like hyenas and vultures at a corpse.”

Jaymes tells me he is in a relationship at the moment, but has never really been into the hook-up thing. “Occasionally a gay guy will come along in my social circles that takes an interest in me but I closed my Manhunt and only check Gaydar when I get messages. I miss the Mogenic days from when I was a kid. People got to know you as a friend and if they liked you they’d take you out for a picnic, get all close and cuddly and they wouldn’t disappear off the face of the earth once you had sex or suddenly remember they already had a boyfriend.”

No longer ashamed

29-year-old Andrew from Brisbane is working in the mining sector. He occasionally uses SOPVs and says he sometimes feels ashamed. “It’s almost an admission of failure and the last resort. Like I can’t manage to hold down a relationship, pick up in nightclub, meet someone or get a hit on Gaydar. So desperation sets in and at some point during a night out I make my way to the closest SOPV.

“This is really only an opinion I held after I broke up with my serious boyfriend. He was quite snobbish and influenced me to think that SOPV’s were shameful.

“Prior to that I’d had quite a bit of fun in both Sydney and Melbourne. Namely upstairs at the Peel which was a fave! I’m starting to become more comfortable with myself once again, and have realised what I think of myself is all that matters! And if I meet/see someone in an SOPV, what’s to be ashamed of? We’re both there! I think they will start to become more regular in my life – especially given the lack of talent on Gaydar.

“I predominantly hook up in nightclubs, sometimes with disastrous results. But it at least gives me some entertaining stories to tell! Clubs combine my three favourite things – alcohol, stupid dancing and the possibility of sex. Hence why I loved the Peel so much,” he laughs.

“I used Gay.com chat a lot early on, and have used Gaydar occasionally for hook ups, but some bad experiences/stupid decisions have turned me off using them. Plus, an SOPV is a much easier option for sex right now. I’ve never picked up off Grindr… oh wait… I ended up chatting to my neighbour one night, but nothing happened until a few days later when we had dinner! Other than that it’s not really worked for me.

“Considering that we are increasingly finding ways to distance ourselves from people, I think they [SOPVs] are still very important. For me it really is about having the confidence to use one. There are many other ways to have anonymous sex, but at an SOPV you don’t have to worry about trusting their profile, real life is always sexier than an LCD screen.

“With the rise of fake profiles and forums trolls, I think there is a general movement away from the dating/hook-up sites, and the rise in popularity of Grindr, people generally live there lives online. Between work, study, Facebook, SameSame, Skype, and updating Twitter on my touch screen phone I am never disconnected and rarely not in front of a screen.

“I think the pendulum has really swung way too far towards online life and people are getting sick of it. We are starting to swing back to a more normal state of being. Similar to the “gay scene” fatigue, I think online fatigue is a reality.”

Cutting to the chase

Raz is 33 and living in Sydney. He tells me he has never really been into socialising in the gay scene. “I’ll go out because my friends go out but I’m not really into that as a scene, so I don’t really ever go out and pick up at clubs! I basically started using SOPV’s as an alternative to sitting in a club with shit music and drag shows that I hate, for a chance to get a root at the end of it! SOPVs basically cut to the chase.

Raz tells me that a good SOPV is a clean one. “I think them not being skanky and dirty is a good start! I have been to a couple of saunas that are so freaking gross that you don’t want to touch anything because you’ll catch god knows how many diseases. I think a good chill-out space is good too. When I was with my first boyfriend we used to just go to Club 80 in Melbourne and chill out there because it was just good time on our own and to get away from our families.”

Does Raz feel that SOPVs are still relevant in modern gay culture with the rise of the internet? “I think they are super relevant! For one thing I think they are good for guys who are not into the scene and people who do not identify as being gay. It’s a better alternative to trolling parks at midnight and you don’t have to worry about gay bashers. It’s a safe environment and all types of guys go there.

“There is also lot less of the body fascism thing you get elsewhere. Its just a generally more accepting environment. And because people are just going there for sex I think that breaks down a lot of social barriers that you face when you go out to night clubs and bars.

“In terms of comparing it to the internet, I think its all right there. You’re not driving out heading to meet up with someone, its all right there in the building, so if you want to have sex with somebody you have sex with them. You don’t have to organise to meet them and have that weird talk like ‘What are you into?’, ‘I’m really into Twilight’, ‘Really? I hate Twilight,’ etc.

“Its more like ‘oh you want a root? I want a root… lets go.’ And sometimes without even having to talk at all!”

Social

Comments

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rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 3rd Aug, 2010

Nice article....I only skimmed it but it seemed fine.

eurolad

eurolad said on the 3rd Aug, 2010

I did use saunas mainly when I went on my overseas trips over the last few years, but since I have lost a bit of interest in sex I don't feel the need to visit them anymore.

Marc

Marc said on the 4th Aug, 2010

Well covered content Hazin! one line that stuck out at me was the "gay scene'-"online" fatigue. Yes I have frequented a sauna or two in Melbourne, inevitably I am fatigued with that too; the endless walk around while the menu on offer doesn't appeal to me or I don't appeal to them. Perhaps it's time for me to step away form the fray for a sabbatical!

BoneIdol

BoneIdol said on the 4th Aug, 2010

Ive only ever been a handful of times and although the time I got banged real good by some hunky german dude was memorable, mostly I never enjoyed it. The smell was enough to turn me off. I think also that jacuzzis and steam rooms are breeding grounds for bacteria and fungi. Because they can be quite dark there is also a tendecy that you might sit in someones skanky old spoof.

coast_boy_21

coast_boy_21 said on the 4th Aug, 2010

I went to a SOPV once because I was interested to see what it was like, Unfortunatly some sleezy guy kept following me and would not leave me alone, I kept saying no I'm not interested. He then went up behind me and pulled my pants down and went to insert, I yelled at him and he left and so did I. After that experience I will never ever go back to a SOPV. I have heard stories from young twink type guys who have had similar experiences from predatory older men at SOPV venues.

Andymp62

Andymp62 said on the 4th Aug, 2010

I think it's a generational thing. I remember my first time at a SOPV when I was bout 23 and being chased by fat old dudes so never went again till about six years ago and now being older and wiser have lots of good times as I dont have the inexperiance or the self loathing of youth. You make things how you want them. Beats used to be my thing and spent many years having great outdoor sex with men as well as making friends and ending up with a B/F or to over the years. Alas the internet has killed beats and the body nazis of todays gay media and internet sites have made guys so body conscience that if you don't have a hairless gym buffed body you better kill ya self right now. :) SOPV get rid of all the game playing and pretentions of the club and pub scene. But Hey1 each to their own thing. I never take myself or life so seriously. There alot of guys out their that need to get their attitudes adjusted and stop being so judgemental of everyone else. No one forces any of us to do something we don't want to. We have a choice. Peace and love dudes! :)

BoneIdol

BoneIdol said on the 4th Aug, 2010



You could just ask for a couple of hundred and then everyones happy. Saggy bums with liver spots isnt all that bad if you close your eyes. Lets face it we are all going to be old and decrepit one day. As you get older youll get less precious and therefore less choosy. A hole is just a hole after all. :D

ernesto_1

ernesto_1 said on the 4th Aug, 2010

5 days havent been to a sauna. a new record!

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 4th Aug, 2010



bet you dont make it passed this weekend.

BoneIdol

BoneIdol said on the 4th Aug, 2010

A friend of mine stepped on a poo in the steam room at Kens

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 4th Aug, 2010

I afraid that some may find this thread somewhat 'creepy'. Im not judging...

Travis de Jonk

Travis de Jonk said on the 5th Aug, 2010

Fantastic article hazy! It took me a few sittings to get through, but it was enjoyable reading.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 5th Aug, 2010


Thanks for sharing sister. Bless :)

bappleton

bappleton said on the 6th Aug, 2010

on holidays in europe and in amsterdam saunas are treated as a social event. the sunday afternoon gathering. after you do "your" business then you head to the bar and sit around and chat over drinks just like "boys down the pub" it's just part of life. i guess the straight and bi guys that's there stuff..they'll more than likely avoid the drinks afterwards. but it's not such a big deal in europe as australia.. maybe one day... like gay marriage. hi from barcelona.

Sinshol

Sinshol said on the 6th Aug, 2010

This is what gives homosexuals a bad name. I just don't understand the reason behind this.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 6th Aug, 2010

Hazy, i had no idea you were such a dirty perve. Bless

joddi

joddi said on the 6th Aug, 2010

not a sauna person myself

hazyinseptember

hazyinseptember said on the 7th Aug, 2010



Maybe not everyone wants to be you?

I would also point out in the article that one sauna manager stated that "Monday to Friday, the majority of our customers, probably around 80%, don’t identify as gay."

I believe people in glass houses and all that shit...

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 7th Aug, 2010



?
Do you mean homosexuals have a bad name because of the saunas etc ?

Hope not.

I have straight friends and they have places to go as well. Sure they dont call them sex on premises but there are a few cinemas around where you can private viewings or I think that house out Parramatta way still operates with its all in gang bang.
There is also a group that organises sex parties. Also have a read of the massage columns in the papers with all those nice Asian girls etc.

Oh and there are way more Brothels for straights then there are gay.

For some reason the media just like to focus on our venues.

maz1986

maz1986 said on the 7th Aug, 2010

I have never been to a SOPV myself, but it sounds like an interesting culture. I especially like the notion of a venue that is not just all about the sex and a can also be a get away spot with no smoke and mirrors.

I'd have to say that I do miss mogenic from back when it first started in the early 2000's and that it seems like a small band of people fall outside the group that aren't just looking for the hook up or that can hold up a decent conversation with correct spelling and grammer.

Thanks for the article, it was entertaining to read.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 7th Aug, 2010

S.O.P.V like everything else in society- exist cos there is a need for them.

Some people like to go and feel dirty and sleazy etc- while others like the fact that they are kind of sexually liberating and there is no pretending. They are there for a root and so is everyone else.

A person's view on SOPV will be influenced by their personal views on sex and sexuality. And that's ok. It's all about choices and being true to your sexual nature.

I do not begrudge anyone their appetites nor the manner in which they choose to eat.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 7th Aug, 2010

I think everyone-else's sex-lives are irksome:)

I think beats should be considered a resource; a meeting place- Im thinking more of a beach or a park. There are no potties no more and/or no one will tell me where they are:) No, I couldn't be bothered anymore anyways.

Str8 creatures get up to all kinds of catting-around too given half the chance.
Mercifully, my libido, along with my hair, is leaving me:). I find Im getting into a more of a quality-vis-quantity state-of-mind nowadays. OMG, I could just be getting old!

Sinshol

Sinshol said on the 7th Aug, 2010

?
Do you mean homosexuals have a bad name because of the saunas etc ?

Hope not.

I have straight friends and they have places to go as well. Sure they dont call them sex on premises but there are a few cinemas around where you can private viewings or I think that house out Parramatta way still operates with its all in gang bang.
There is also a group that organises sex parties. Also have a read of the massage columns in the papers with all those nice Asian girls etc.

Oh and there are way more Brothels for straights then there are gay.

For some reason the media just like to focus on our venues.

I understand your point of view and I was rather general. But being in an environment (my friends/family) that only ever identifies with gays as 'men that fuck in bushes' or 'fuck around with dirty old men in saunas'. Now I know this is very general and does not represent the majority of the gay community but the heterosexual community (despite their avenues for sex) have blatantly use this to demean and slander us.

I personally find that promiscuity can be quite unhealthy and almost so self-indulging that its selfish. I don't see why gay men can use the bedroom like everyone else (not that the bedroom is the only place for sex :D). But then again, coming back to your argument it would mean that homosexuals would have to limit themselves in order to appease the heterosexual culture/society and it's view despite the heterosexual society holding a double standard.

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 7th Aug, 2010



Society looks at us the way they do because we are Gay and they cannot seem to understand our sexual behaviour as the thought of two men fucking seems to drum up irrational fears that it may happen to them unwillingly or that they may have repressed homoerotic tendencies of their own.

What about the heterosexuals? They have; strip-clubs, brothels, street-workers, escort agencies and many more bars to hook up in without an eyebrow being raised...

Those disgusting heteros flaunt their sexism, binaries, insecurities and heteronormative behaviours in my face every fucking day. In the street, on the TV, over the radio, online, in the news...

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 7th Aug, 2010


I personally find that promiscuity can be quite unhealthy and almost so self-indulging that its selfish. I don't see why gay men can use the bedroom like everyone else (not that the bedroom is the only place for sex :D). But then again, coming back to your argument it would mean that homosexuals would have to limit themselves in order to appease the heterosexual culture/society and it's view despite the heterosexual society holding a double standard.

What about the lovers' lanes and carpark areas where the boys take their girlfriends to shag in the backseats of their cars? Why don't they get the same amount of flack as us? Oh that's right, the'ye heterosexuals, they have privileges.

There is nothing wrong with promiscuity, I was fucking any guy on two legs for 2 and a half years before I met my boyfriend in late January this year and I have to say I enjoyed those two and a half years and there was nothing unhealthy, I didn't get any STIs from all that fucking because I was not putting myself at any risk.

You are over-reacting.

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 7th Aug, 2010



Load of fucking bullshit! Men regardless of sexual preference will always have some sort of urge to stick their dicks in something or someone so it doesn't surprise me that we have SOPVs. Considering that our sexual behaviour/existence was technically criminal not so long ago under state law, I am not surprised at the fact that there are Gay/Bi/MSM males who will fuck eachother senseless because after all those years of repression you want to kick up your heels and fuck (paraphrasing Margaret Cho).

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 7th Aug, 2010



That sucks....had something similar happen to me, I grabbed his balls and said "cut it out or I'll rip em' off!"

Had one guy want to open the door to the room we were using cos he wanted others to watch, which I was not up for that night and he kept trying to kiss me in the most unnatractive way and I had to push him about a bit, he thought I was just being a tough bottom but it took a few more seconds of him trying to get at me and me putting him into an armlock before he got the message.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 7th Aug, 2010

A few years ago I went for a swim on Balmoral beach. Then just walked around to the end of the beach. There were 2 couples walking behind me.
As I got to the rocks area and was carefully walking over them I looked up and there was a guy flat on his back with his girlf bouncing up and down on him. Stupidly I kept walking then realised had to walk back as did the 2 couples. All that happened was a few sniggers.

Now if that had been 2 guys ?

Like you say RudeBoy lots of sex places for straights but the homophobic papers/
reporters just love to play up on gay ones.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 8th Aug, 2010

Society looks at us the way they do because we are Gay and they cannot seem to understand our sexual behaviour as the thought of two men fucking seems to drum up irrational fears that it may happen to them unwillingly or that they may have repressed homoerotic tendencies of their own.

What about the heterosexuals? They have; strip-clubs, brothels, street-workers, escort agencies and many more bars to hook up in without an eyebrow being raised...

Those disgusting heteros flaunt their sexism, binaries, insecurities and heteronormative behaviours in my face every fucking day. In the street, on the TV, over the radio, online, in the news...
Yes, ur soo right: its their world. Str8s are so privileged and most of them have no inkling of it. Our sexual lives in semi-public, and what little social space we have created for ourselves, are always resented.

Sinshol

Sinshol said on the 8th Aug, 2010

What about the lovers' lanes and carpark areas where the boys take their girlfriends to shag in the backseats of their cars? Why don't they get the same amount of flack as us? Oh that's right, the'ye heterosexuals, they have privileges.

There is nothing wrong with promiscuity, I was fucking any guy on two legs for 2 and a half years before I met my boyfriend in late January this year and I have to say I enjoyed those two and a half years and there was nothing unhealthy, I didn't get any STIs from all that fucking because I was not putting myself at any risk.

You are over-reacting.

Did you read the entirety of my post? As I said, it would require the hetreosexuals to hold a double standard - of which I do not agree. I can understand your point of view and I believe any person goes through that stage and then settles down. :)

I wasn't overreacting.



As I said, I re-phrased my opinion. It was far too general and broad.

andrewc

andrewc said on the 8th Aug, 2010

As with anything it is the frame of reference that you have... My straight friends are/were mostly quite promiscuous. We talk about sex openly and frankly, so there is no judgement!

At uni i was in an international association that used to run a lot of professional conferences, which were basically a screw-fest. Everyone's win-ons were publicised and the really slutty people had all slept with each other... we used to create "spit-maps" connecting everyone... These were all straight people!

So I think it's bull-shit that all breeders would look down on "us" for SOPVs... most would not care!

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 8th Aug, 2010

OMG, the standard of posts is soaring . High marks everyone.

hazyinseptember

hazyinseptember said on the 8th Aug, 2010



lol unfortunately not the case.. we see far too many horny 60+ at the sauna I work at.

there are also many people i know who are happy being single and have no plans on settling down, across all ages.

eurolad

eurolad said on the 8th Aug, 2010



Heterosexuals can go and get fucked simple as that.

Sinshol

Sinshol said on the 8th Aug, 2010

lol unfortunately not the case.. we see far too many horny 60+ at the sauna I work at.

there are also many people i know who are happy being single and have no plans on settling down, across all ages.

I should just be quiet then :D My statements are being read far too deep.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 8th Aug, 2010

I think for the most part, sex is harmless and usually therapeutic?

Phazz

Phazz said on the 8th Aug, 2010

A gay man going to a SOPV is no different to a straight man going to a brothel.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 8th Aug, 2010



I think there is a big difference

andrewc

andrewc said on the 8th Aug, 2010

Your not paying someone to have sex with you... your paying to get into a place where sex with consenting adults is allowed and known to occur. Big difference.

andrewc

andrewc said on the 8th Aug, 2010

was only answering ;)

Phazz

Phazz said on the 9th Aug, 2010





To clarify what I mean, there is no real difference from a "moral" standpoint. Pay money, get sex. How the sex is offered of course is different.

Let's use the David Campbell scenario as an example. Would it have been looked upon any differently if he had been caught at a straight brothel?

andrewc

andrewc said on the 9th Aug, 2010

In that logic, paying to get into a nightclub, buying someone a drink and taking them home could be construed as paying for sex.

David Campbell is a different issue due to cheating being involved.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 9th Aug, 2010



Quite. Its hypocrisy. The only decent sex is married str8s at home with door locked and the lights off?

But partners at a SOPV are both consenting they have sex together cause they want to.
A prostitute does not chose, s/he is chosen. S/he does it for money, not because s/he wants to.

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 9th Aug, 2010


A prostitute does not chose, s/he is chosen. S/he does it for money, not because s/he wants to.

BULL - FUCKING - SHIT !

I thought you would have known better than this. A prostitute has the right to refuse service to a client and they have the right to withdraw consent even if they are in the middle of a booking with a client.

Your claims that prostitutes are forced into their jobs and don't actively choose it as a employment option on unfounded and un-supported and there is NO evidence to suggest that all sex-workers are in that situation.

There is a huge difference between sex-work and sex-slavery. In the former, there is informed consent given by the worker to engage in sexual activity for financial gain.

In the latter [sex-slavery] there is no choice on the part of the worker and they are forced to do bookings with clients and as many as their pimp/madam tells them to. It is sex-slavery that is the problem as it is a violation of human rights and it should not be lumped in with the many workers who DO choose to go into that line of work.

Money is an attractive element in the industry and as far as I am concerned if people are willing to put themselves around on the weekends to as many people as possible for free then what is the problem with doing it for cash. I find it funny how the same people who sleep around say that prostitutions takes the pleasure away from sex when they are no different themselves.

How about this for an option:

Flip burgers and be treated like shit for minimum wage and shit conditions.

OR

Have sex, spin around a brass pole, perform services as a Master/Mistress/Dominatrix (which by the way requires training) and get paid potentially thousands of dollars a week. It's also a recession-proof industry.

If you have the headspace for the job then by all means go ahead and do it but if you don't have the confidence or the basic common sense then I would suggest going for another line of work.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 9th Aug, 2010

BULL - FUCKING - SHIT !

I thought you would have known better than this. A prostitute has the right to refuse service to a client and they have the right to withdraw consent even if they are in the middle of a booking with a client.

Your claims that prostitutes are forced into their jobs and don't actively choose it as a employment option on unfounded and un-supported and there is NO evidence to suggest that all sex-workers are in that situation.

There is a huge difference between sex-work and sex-slavery. In the former, there is informed consent given by the worker to engage in sexual activity for financial gain.

In the latter [sex-slavery] there is no choice on the part of the worker and they are forced to do bookings with clients and as many as their pimp/madam tells them to. It is sex-slavery that is the problem as it is a violation of human rights and it should not be lumped in with the many workers who DO choose to go into that line of work.

Money is an attractive element in the industry and as far as I am concerned if people are willing to put themselves around on the weekends to as many people as possible for free then what is the problem with doing it for cash. I find it funny how the same people who sleep around say that prostitutions takes the pleasure away from sex when they are no different themselves.

How about this for an option:

Flip burgers and be treated like shit for minimum wage and shit conditions.

OR

Have sex, spin around a brass pole, perform services as a Master/Mistress/Dominatrix (which by the way requires training) and get paid potentially thousands of dollars a week. It's also a recession-proof industry.

If you have the headspace for the job then by all means go ahead and do it but if you don't have the confidence or the basic common sense then I would suggest going for another line of work.
OK dear (sigh)
But is she refuses, she don't get paid. If she refused too often, her employer may let her go. Also, some prostitutes, especially some poor illegal immigrants, are forced to take all their clients. They are virtual sex-slaves.

Thats right, you're the sex - worker advocate.

Any ways, my point was to distinguish a difference between brothels and SOPVs, that is all. :)

rudeboy86

rudeboy86 said on the 9th Aug, 2010

OK dear (sigh)
But is she refuses, she don't get paid. If she refused too often, her employer may let her go.

She??? There are men in the industry too!!!

If the employer is that much of an arsehole then they are not worth working for.

All workers have rights!

Working privately is much better for sex-workers if they are worried about money and the choice in clients. Working privately means you can screen your clients and meet them first before you do a booking with them. It is a matter of common sense.



Did you not read the part where I mentioned my opposition and hatred of sex-slavery? Did you also not see where I had said that sex-slavery is different from consensual sex-work? Go back and re-read what I posted before you make such comments



...and what the hell is wrong with that? Just because sex is involved it immediately draws stigma in this country which still seems to not have recovered fromt he Victorian Era wowser approach to matters of sex and sexuality.



Here is one difference that we can agree on... SOPVs are cheaper than paying a sex-worker. See you can highlight that without stigmatising sex-workers.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 9th Aug, 2010

She??? There are men in the industry too!!!

If the employer is that much of an arsehole then they are not worth working for.

All workers have rights!

Working privately is much better for sex-workers if they are worried about money and the choice in clients. Working privately means you can screen your clients and meet them first before you do a booking with them. It is a matter of common sense.



Did you not read the part where I mentioned my opposition and hatred of sex-slavery? Did you also not see where I had said that sex-slavery is different from consensual sex-work? Go back and re-read what I posted before you make such comments



...and what the hell is wrong with that? Just because sex is involved it immediately draws stigma in this country which still seems to not have recovered fromt he Victorian Era wowser approach to matters of sex and sexuality.



Here is one difference that we can agree on... SOPVs are cheaper than paying a sex-worker. See you can highlight that without stigmatising sex-workers.
Sweety, you're coming across as over-the-top belligerent and argumentative again.
I'm on your side:)

Paddyskip

Paddyskip said on the 9th Aug, 2010

What a well written & interesting article :) .. it's certainly prompted some interesting comments!

For what it's worth .. anyone who has a background story running re "what the heterosexuals might think" (about SOPV's) ie: family etc .. I wonder how often you'd challenge them (or is it just assumed that they may think 'these things' & you buying into it by not questioning it gives them permission to do so?).
Unfortunately it still ain't no level playing field out there.. far from it. For a whole host or reasons, double standards abound & too often go unchecked. In terms of equality & acceptance .. we've still got a long way to go yet!

Enigma1376

Enigma1376 said on the 15th Aug, 2010

Good work Hazy, very interesting read!

flounder

flounder said on the 15th Aug, 2010

Could be some jealously from the straight guys too, imagine a sauna where they could go and have casual, consenting sex with women?

Fuck the lineup would stretch for miles :rolleyes:

Phazz

Phazz said on the 16th Aug, 2010

Could be some jealously from the straight guys too, imagine a sauna where they could go and have casual, consenting sex with women?

Fuck the lineup would stretch for miles :rolleyes:

They do, it's called swingers clubs.

flounder

flounder said on the 16th Aug, 2010

Phaz do swingers clubs let single guys in though, I thought they sort of limited that?

flounder

flounder said on the 16th Aug, 2010

Sorry Im a "z" short :o

Doolander

Doolander said on the 16th Aug, 2010



If the employer is that much of an arsehole then they are not worth working for.

All workers have rights!

Working privately is much better for sex-workers if they are worried about money and the choice in clients. Working privately means you can screen your clients and meet them first before you do a booking with them. It is a matter of common sense.


A lot of the time (location depending) sex workers have more incentive to work for someone (mostly a pimp) and given that it is an incentive driven industry....
This is mostly a safety option. Whilst working privately they can screen their clients, they are also at risk of not being paid, (who's going to enforce payment on the clients?)
Other downsides are the beating etc.
So whilst everyone has rights.... they hardly have a union on their side.
Just saying.... :)

poolboy jackson

poolboy jackson said on the 16th Aug, 2010



aren't all industries incentive-driven?

Doolander

Doolander said on the 16th Aug, 2010



I would amble along the lines of results driven....
Not necessarily incentives....
Just my thoughts anyway.... I guess most industries are either of the two?
Prostitution = Incentive driven
Not-for-profit organisation = Results driven?
Make sense?

ernesto_1

ernesto_1 said on the 3rd Feb, 2011

flameevans... there are 6 billion ppl or so in the world. surely u will find someone who meets u half way :)

hazyinseptember

hazyinseptember said on the 3rd Feb, 2011

^ its all about finding your neiche..

its there, and there are heaps of people waiting to meet you..

ernesto_1

ernesto_1 said on the 3rd Feb, 2011

dont do a thing till u get that ring flame evans... and no, not that ring :p... oh wait.. maybe that too!