Image for When did straight-acting become attractive?

When did straight-actingbecome attractive?

Are people who assure you they are straight acting just subtly fostering homophobia? After all, there’s nothing wrong with being gay acting, writes Alexander Leighton.


Looking back on the concept of straight-acting, I first have to recall an artwork I saw in a gallery when I was about 12. I must have stood there staring at it for a good fifteen minutes before my Mum came over and thought that my curiosity meant that she had to explain what gay was to me. In reality, I knew what gay meant but I didn’t know what straight meant. Once I knew what straight meant, I couldn’t understand why the out gay men who were my idols at the time, would want to act like a straight man – which to my understanding and the understanding of the artist meant that they adhered to straight stereotypes and avoided gay ones so as to appear heterosexual.

So now, six years later I am still faced with the question “Why would out gay men want to act like straight men?” Isn’t the whole concept of straight acting a massive example of internalised homophobia? I mean if you say “I act straight” aren’t you buying into the idea that there is some definitive way in that being a homosexual changes the way that you act? And what does it even mean to act straight? From a cursory look at the website straightacting.com straight acting is advertised as acting in a masculine manner. If one can assume that in a man, straight is synonymous with masculine, then does this mean that gay is synonymous with effeminate? Isn’t this one of the main ideas from which homophobia springs; that all gay men are effeminate and all straight men are masculine?

Yet something I’ve heard so many times from particularly masculine men who have been attracted to me is “One of the things I like about you is that you aren’t super gay, you know, you don’t act like a girl all the time.” I think when I get told that, the guys expect it to come across as some super-meaningful compliment so when I reply “Well, if you don’t want someone gay then you’ve got the wrong person,” they tend to get confused.

It’s at this point that I need to clarify that I’m not writing this article to criticise masculine homosexual men. I’m criticising the homosexual men who think that straight acting makes them somehow socially superior and go out of their way to appear straight to anyone who they don’t want to have gay sex with. If a homosexual man is masculine then that is how he is and I can say that I am a masculine homosexual man (mostly). If he says he is straight acting then that is not how he is, that is an act. Acting means to act, fancy that!

As far as I see it, if you want to act straight and pretend to be straight when you aren’t then why not go all the way and BE STRAIGHT. I certainly won’t miss you. Straight acting is something we’ve all done at one time or another for usually one reason: We don’t want people to know we are gay. So why are there now all these openly homosexual men saying they’re straight acting and more importantly WHY DO PEOPLE WANT STRAIGHT ACTING BOYFRIENDS?

As an example, I was on a date with a guy and he pulled me into a David Jones. I wasn’t really sure what was going on (as I definitely don’t call clothes shopping a date) until he pointed out a man with dyed pink hair with leopard spots shaved into it and started giggling. I had no idea what he was laughing about until he said “He’s so faggy; it’s hilarious.” Needless to say I was angry at him. Here he was, on a date with another man, and he was pointing out and ridiculing a random stranger for having a haircut that might be perceived as stereotypically gay. After listening to him call himself straight-acting for an entire evening and then being openly homophobic, I just left without another word.

Straight acting isn’t being masculine, it’s being homophobic. You are scared of being associated with homosexuals because of the adversity we face but you’re more than happy to take all the liberties our struggles against this adversity have brought you. I came out of the closet at age 14 as a gay-acting gay and I will always be gay-acting because I am gay. Every action I do is gay because I am gay.

So if you do just use the term ‘straight acting’ why not pause and think about the homophobia the term implies and just say ‘masculine’?

And if you’re acting straight purely because you think that it makes you better than all of us faggots, poofs and queers then I think that maybe you should finally step out of the closet and into our world because You can’t act straight and be gay. It’s an oxymoron, moron.

Comments

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ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Genuine curiosity: where does the 'gay voice' come from? The 'camp voice' occurs in all the english speaking countries I know of, and people call it a 'gay accent', but gays aren't raised in communes. WHERE does that voice come from? Why do only gay men seem to have it? Why don't ALL gay men have it? The only conclusion I can come to is it's put on...

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I'd call myself straight-acting...

But everyone else would just call me a liar!

http://www.planeteyetraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/liberace.jpg

I love Liberace but I wouldn't let anyone like him anywhere near my coit... talk about battle for the dildos.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

things like 'thats so gay' and straight acting and gay acting only perpetuate stereotypes that being gay is lesser and a stereotype of feminine. wake up people. its always teh one the biggest homophobes who argue to the hilt to defend their use of these terms. not that there is anything wrong with men who display both masculine and feminine traits. in fact its a more balanced and healthy individual. Why subscribe to the heterosexual view of men which is doing men a disservice. its good to see actually with the metrosexual that more hetero men are being more comfortable being themselves and not putting on a front of over compensating their masculinity.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 22nd Mar, 2012



Good point Ensign-Charlie. I've created a new thread on this. :)

Hass

Hass said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I think part of the problem is the term "straight-acting" can mean different things to different people. Some people hear the word "acting" and assume it means someone is putting on an act. But "acting" doesn't always mean make believe or pretend.

Indeed, it can just mean the way people act naturally. Many gay guys just pick up the term because it's an easy way of describing things and getting to the point.

There's plenty of gay guys out there who are indistinguishable in manner/speech from your average straight guy. These guys often don't send off signals on people's gaydars. It's only natural that people will use a term like "straight-acting" to describe them.

I don't use the term myself. That's because I'm well aware that it has negative connotations. Others aren't as clued in. Don't judge them for using the term. Only judge them if they do turn out to be douches who think being "straight-acting" makes them superior.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I like the term "straight acting" because I know I'm not going to get some dude in stilettos singing "I Am What I Am" turning up on my doorstep thinking they are going to fuck me -_-

Roses

Roses said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

OMG that guy is so hot lol....

Be4r

Be4r said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Why should there be any "acting" involved with any sexuality? Just be yourself!

I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some, but if someone was either camp or super-manly and it wasn't an act, then I'd be fine with it.

Roydee

Roydee said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Just act naturally. Be true to yourself and be yourself. If that is "Too Gay" for some people that their problem not yours. In the end you have to live with yourself.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Why should there be any "acting" involved with any sexuality? Just be yourself!

I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some, but if someone was either camp or super-manly and it wasn't an act, then I'd be fine with it.

Life is a play and not a very good one:

"...Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Everything we do is theatre:

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..."

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Why thank you for denigrating the entire female of the species again by saying that effeminate is weak and that being effiminate is wrong.



The females of the human species ARE on average physically weaker. Just look at the achievements of men vs women in sports. Just look at who is asked to do the lifting of heavy boxes at work.

QUOTE=Shadow Rider;540180]
Every comment is evidence that all you "Gays"are misyoginistic. In some way or another. Why do you never see the Lesbians advertise as strait acting?



Lesbians have the term "femme". And you can't tell me that lesbians find feminine girls attractive in the same way we find masculine men attractive.

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I'm staying out of this thread because it's a can of worms.

The notion of 'straight-acting' brings up the notion of 'actor' and 'audience'. That brings up the notion of the audience's perceptions of the actor. That brings up the notion of the actor's perceptions of the audience's perceptions.

I say 'Throw the can of worms away and just do!'.

The wording acting has more than one meaning. For example: the criminal was acting alone.

Does this mean he was doing a performance piece whilst committing his violence against his victim? Perhaps his punching was all for show and his victim was simply the audience?

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some,

I think the super camp guys ARE acting. They are like the class clown whose behaviour is reinforced because of the attention they receive from it.

dracon388

dracon388 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Not true, I know camp guys who are like it even if it's just one on one - some are like that ALL the time, love them or hate them.

dracon388

dracon388 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

are we talking about grindr here? ;)
It does come down to people judging based on you, not every gay guy that comes up to you wants to have sex, maybe they just want to be friends? chat. and not feel alone??

Not just Grindr, I'm just talking in general the "gay hating" gays, no queens, no fems, etc etc, as far as Im concerned theres no "too gay" just pisses me off that theres people who will brush you off just because you have an alternative haircut of all things.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I couldn't give a rat's arse about how anyone acts or whether or not their behaviour is contrived. I just can't get turned on by a screaming queen no matter how big his dick or how filthy he likes his sex.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.

Irene

Irene said on the 23rd Mar, 2012


What????
I love femme women.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

What????
I love femme women.

If I throw on a dress and put on some lippy will you reply to my fucking email? :mad:

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



I'll send you some shit. -_-

someoneinatree

someoneinatree said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'


I don't think this is true necessarily. And again we're seeing another false "us vs them" divide being constructed. What you're seeing is people who use the term vs. people who don't use the term - clearly the ones who use it are going to defend it, and are also likely to identify as quite masculine. That doesn't logically equate to masculine gay guys are fine with it and feminine gay guys are not. It just highlights that people who already use it are going to be defensive about its usage. I'd like to emphasise that I identify as neither masculine or feminine as I think they're pretty inadequate categories to describe complex personalities.

What I find most surprising is that people seem to be taking it as an attack on guys who identify as masculine. It's certainly not in my case. I'm against guys using the language of "straight-acting", I'm not against the identity of the guys who use that language (except if they put down other people's identities in the process of asserting their own).

I find it even more troubling that there is an essentialist/heteronormative viewpoint on sex and gender, and occasionally extending to sexuality, underpinning quite a few of the responses (on both sides of the debate). Any viewpoint that attempts to define what a "real man" is or isn't, or that that uses language like "if I wanted to date a woman I'd be straight" I find pretty regressive.

Haven't we moved on? People are people, and they should be respected as such, and I personally think we should do our best to show that respect through the way we communicate.

When all is said and done, these kinds of arguments make me think of this amazing song:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj9yd-LdLCM"]Real Men - Joe Jackson

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I really don't know why it's even a topic of discussion.

When I was a young child I used to have sexual fantasises over all the hunky guys I would see in my mother's various clothes catalogues and never once did I fantasise about a guy in fishnets and lipstick.

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

What????
I love femme women.

Sorry I skipped a word in there "don't".

Ie.

Lesbians have the term "femme". And you can't tell me that lesbians DONT find feminine girls attractive in the same way we find masculine men attractive.

My phone has a small screen so I rarely proof read.


What I meant to say was that lesbians are attracted to feminine women just like gay men are attracted to masculine men.

We wouldn't be homosexuals if we weren't!

Bi people I think are morely likely to be attracted to gender diverse people than homos.

someoneinatree

someoneinatree said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I really don't know why it's even a topic of discussion.

When I was a young child I used to have sexual fantasises over all the hunky guys I would see in my mother's various clothes catalogues and never once did I fantasise about a guy in fishnets and lipstick.

You seem to be universalising your personal experience. Not everyone behaves the same, thinks the same, or is attracted to the same thing. Plenty of guys out there who identify as everything from straight to gay who enjoy transvestitism, or being with transgendered and transsexual men, women and everything in between.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Tell me about it?
I've lost count of the number of "straight" guys I've fucked who turned up wearing ladies knickers... big no no... HUGE. I don't do frilly girly shit. I like my men big and butch and dripping cum (like flounder only with less issues).

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.

no thats not true.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.



Which part....?
Keeping in mind, from my perspective, as stated, that is how it is seeming to me....

I don't really give a damn about peoples perceptive behaviours... I just don't like high-maintenance people in general, irrespective of how they act.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Amen! wanna take flounder off my hands? Talk about high fucking maintenance - that guy should come with a warning and an instruction manual -_-

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

He did, but I believe you used it as a cum rag....

flounder

flounder said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Hey, enough you pricks! :eek:

flounder

flounder said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Im not on your hands and you can get off your knees.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

The girls have different but just as judgmental and ultimately meaningless terms: no butches and no bi's.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 24th Mar, 2012

Which part....?
Keeping in mind, from my perspective, as stated, that is how it is seeming to me....

I don't really give a damn about peoples perceptive behaviours... I just don't like high-maintenance people in general, irrespective of how they act.

that anyone who has a problem with the term 'straight acting' are feminine and insecure about their masculinity.

lancealot

lancealot said on the 24th Mar, 2012

Some people may not be in a position to be free and open with their sexuality. This may be due to attitudes from family, friends or their own head space. So Straight acting could be someone understanding, who shares a common ground, that you may enjoy being with and yet does not put you in an uncomfortable situation when the timing is not quite right.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 24th Mar, 2012



for the most part this isn't the case and this is another poor attempt at justifying a homophobic term

aeronox

aeronox said on the 25th Mar, 2012

"Straight" and "gay" describe my sexual orientation, which in day-to-day life only comes in to play if I'm caught perving on a hot guy. The rest of the time I'm just like everyone else. But all those guys with camp behaviours would call me "straight-acting". I only partly agree with this article.

CannotOpenFile37

CannotOpenFile37 said on the 25th Mar, 2012

The problem with this article is it conforms to the premise being is more than a sexual preference and that it is your identifier, which is blatantly not true. 'Straight-acting' implies that there is acting involved, that the original settings in all gay guys is 'effeminate', therefore if you behave straight it's acting. Who cares how people act, it's really up to them what they do and do not find attractive. Just because people choose not to signpost their homosexuality, doesn't mean they're hiding it or ashamed, perhaps it means they've decided being gay doesn't define them.

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012


As you get older, you realise that your sexuality, although part of you, does not define you. When you're young, you've just discovered sex and think that's all that life's about. As you mature, you feel more secure and comfortable in your own skin, less inclined to see people in 'uniforms' and more prone to seeing the person within. If someone thinks that gays should look gay (as in, wear a gay uniform), it's more a sign of their youth and lack of maturity, imo.

darxler

darxler said on the 25th Mar, 2012

News flash buddy: My sexual identity doesn't define me and if you believe it does, then you're just as closed minded and prejudiced as he is. I don't "act"-- What the hell is acting "straight" anyway. If you met me and saw me, and told me I was homophobic for not purposely going out of my way to be extremely flamboyant... Then words can't help you. I completely disagree with you on all fronts but one: Nobody should be made fun of like that.

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Who are you talking to there, Darxler?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 25th Mar, 2012



Oh shit!

The email I mistakenly sent to my mother. I told you I haven't been quite with it lately :(

I think I know now why mum hasn't phoned me all week. Remember that pic I jokingly said I might send to you - for shits and giggles? You guessed it, due to a recent drug induced mental lapse my mother now knows that her little boy ain't so little :eek:

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012

LOL
I think your mum somehow knows that her little boy isn't little. And I think she's known that for quite some time. ;)

danmeow

danmeow said on the 25th Mar, 2012

i think my points have already been made.

despite being a little meaningless (i mean, reducing the entirety of straight culture to a few traits?), to be "straight-acting" is to be repressed whether it seems like it or not. if you're a macho gay, fine. put THAT on your manhunt profile, it's a valid expression of gender and there's more than just one way to be gay or male.
masculinity is a social construct and it is what we shape it to be, anyway.
i have the utmost respect for our forebears, forequeens and fairy godmothers that fought for our right to be who we are and still maintain that we are men, and be seen as human. to say you're straight-acting is worse than living in the closet, it's actively disavowing that heritage and perpetuating the misogynistic, heterosexist, cissexist culture that lumps homosexuality and gender nonconformity together as "less than" and denies respect to those who don't fit the narrow role of "traditionally male" by adopting the role of straight except in the bedroom. newsflash: that's what makes you gay, not the clothes you wear or how high your voice is.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 25th Mar, 2012



But thats not what I said

Doolander

Doolander said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Is anyone else sick of first-year university students?

twoten85

twoten85 said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Whatever happened to people just being themselves? seems like a distant memory.... :(

idksid

idksid said on the 25th Mar, 2012



but that's what it's implying. You may have your personal definition and reason why you use it... but when it comes down to it - it's a really shitty term and I do think it's rather ignorant for anyone to dismiss the negative and insulting connotations it has to every single gay person. You said about those against the term 'straight acting' are usually the more effeminate men..well that's because of how massively belittling it is to those who are effeminate. I've had a lot of trouble accepting my sexuality and for the longest time I carried around so much guilt for displaying characteristics of a stereotypical gay guy so when I see another gay guy dismissing anyone who they don't deem to be 'straight acting' I think.. what the fuck?! I have no problem with those who prefer masculine guys, that's no issue. I prefer tall guys. Different folks, different strokes etc. But the term 'straight acting' implies you're denying someone because of their sexuality - not because of their character. To be blunt, if you have a dick and you enjoy dick - you're not straight acting. It's like when a homophobic person tries to tell you that there's a difference between "gay gay" and "stupid gay" No, there's really not.

Marko

Marko said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I'm still wondering where Bi's fit into this. As a bi myself I've known guys from gay to bi and to straight that varied from masculine to effeminate. It's pointless to judge a book by it's cover, because a lot of guys never live up to the stereotype.

(Just giving a brief rundown of my post in the other thread on this) :]

idksid

idksid said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I'm still wondering where Bi's fit into this. As a bi myself I've known guys from gay to bi and to straight that varied from masculine to effeminate. It's pointless to judge a book by it's cover, because a lot of guys never live up to the stereotype.

(Just giving a brief rundown of my post in the other thread on this) :]

they're in the same boat as anyone else if they're the ones proclaiming to "act straight" or if they're being vilified for being effeminate

I kind of feel like I'm being defensive against people who are okay with the use of straight acting, which to a degree I am, but it's more a frustration because I don't see how some can't seem to realise it's insulting to all non-hetero sexuality.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I've never been on grindr or manhunt or any of those, but I have seen effeminate men dismiss more masculine men as "straight acting". It's not a one way street and everyone seems to be blaming the "straight acting" group for the term. I think it's a term many are saddled with by others, as opposed to self identifying as straight acting.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 25th Mar, 2012



I don't think this is a blame game it's more about raising awareness. Sadly a great deal of homophobia comes from gays and bisexuals themselves as a reflection of what society has put onto them. the saddest thing is that many don't actually understand and see the problem within it.

Decide what words you use and whether Your either part of it or not.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I don't think this is a blame game it's more about raising awareness. Sadly a great deal of homophobia comes from gays and bisexuals themselves as a reflection of what society has put onto them. the saddest thing is that many don't actually understand and see the problem within it.

Decide what words you use and whether Your either part of it or not.

I don't even think defining yourself as effeminate or masculine is really that great. Reinforces the gender binary and the idea that "butch" women or "fem" men are somehow less female or male respectively. It's also a problem with transphobia - I know plenty of effeminate trans men and "butch" trans women and people illegitimize their gender because they don't confirm to the gender stereotype of their chosen gender.

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 26th Mar, 2012

yeah this is in insanely grey issue with no real clear cut right or wrong that has been a integral part of my gay life so far and coming out, and it brings up heaps of points.

Whats frustrating is its a two way street but theres a double standard - I agree with the point made that its wrong to 'hide' behind a straight 'act' because you havent accepted your sexuality or thinking being effeminate in any form whether your mr flaming out and proud or just have the odd 'girly moment' is wrong or putting them down;

but its the way SOME of the ultra queens, bears and 'queers' take this sortof ownership over all things gay and act superior to guys that couldnt care about the scene either way or do go clubbing and have femme mates but dont feel as if they have to be flamboyant or sexuality defined. Yes, fighting to be themselves has done a hell of a lot for gay rights and all but mainly for THEIR section of gay society being more accepted, if that makes any sense. our section feels as if its still invisible under all the rainbow flag waving.

The more masculine/non-scene /'I dont do labels, I've got both masculine and feminine traits, im just me' guys shouldnt have to cop the 'you should be grateful for all we've done so YOU can be yourself' rhetoric some of them try to hold over our heads, fuck off, theres more than one section of gay life and it feels sometimes as if were not 'gay enough' and suddenly homophobic for stating were not into the scene or the stereotype that is the most visible to greater society cause it just overshadows us non-scene/more masc guys (which also could be a misnomer cause they might not be one and the same - you could have a fem guy who hates clubbing and loves sports for example, some people just dont fit into labels).

People are always gonna disagree on this, but I think the point i'm trying to make is sometimes it feels like the guys who arent all gay rights/scene/out and proud get attacked because the only easy visible way of showing theyre different from the 'usual' gay stereotype is trying to label themselves by what theyre not, but to the scene that comes off to some as self-hatred or homophobia or even attacking the big 'gay history and fight for rights' and the scene and just runs into crap that was never intended in the first place, and it really becomes an 'us vs them' thing when its not that that at all, were different, but its perfectly ok for the scene to express itself but we cant without being labelled homophobic to our own community as a whole, like they own everything that is gay.

as for finding more masculine guys desirable to date, I certainly do and the whole 'no fem guys' thing on grindr and such is another can of worms, but I think for someone looking for relationship or hookup material only... stating just what your after to the point on those things is near impossible for anything else but to put it quite blunt, I believe sexual selection and what people find attractive/not attractive are inherently discriminatory things by nature, and theres no way around not offending someone or other when it comes down to it - some people are just too precious and the idea that everyone dosent find the same things attractive and particularly them to be unfathomable. anyways.. tangent.

If anyone understands what im trying to say, champion cause like I said - complex issue with so many threads.. (look how much I ended up writing!)

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 26th Mar, 2012

This is about the issue of the use of' the term 'straight acting' not whether people prefer masculine guys or non scene guys as you put it. there is no grey area about that.

local_warming

local_warming said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I think someone calling themselves "straight acting" is a silly nuance, but no more silly than someone taking offense to it

local_warming

local_warming said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I remember when i first started with internet dating 9 years ago, it seemed that everyone on gaydar and gay.com had this terrible habit of describing themselves as "VGL" in their profiles (glad thats died down these days) - it doesnt matter whether you are or arent, the fact that you have made up everyone elses mind for them, makes you a dick

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 26th Mar, 2012



true, but it is related and was only in the last paragraph of my argument anyway - bulk of it was the way that some who self identify as 'straight acting' be it cause they use the term as a thing to hide behind or feel superior or they use it to mean non-scene or masculine without finding a better term to use just to appease the ones that get all up in arms and offended by it;

the latter are the ones who get hit with the double standard unfortunately because to some of the femme, ultra stereotype bears and such and scene guys who 'made gay gay' and fought for our rights and all the rest of it, these poor guys who dont feel that represents who they are as a gay person feel like they cant speak out about whatever mix of traits they are which DONT fit an obvious stereotype without being branded homohobic or trying to put on an act to mask who they really are because surprise!, were not all the same flaming brand of homos. were people. funny that. :rolleyes:

a lot of people just miss the point completely and jump to the defensive when for the most part, theres no attack. its just guys not wanting to be pigionholed because theyre not OTT, not because they hate the OTT Scene, and the same goes for what diff guys are/not attracted to, although like you pointed out crazymikey, is another story. (by the way, substitute 'OTT' for 'out there' or 'flamboyant' if you feel over the top is an attack to you or offensive/misrepresentaive of your view of flamboyant guys much like were debating the language of 'str8 acting' now as well while youre at it :) )

It's just those self-righteous gay guys that are basically going 'youre not gay acting or over the top enough to be out of the closet and its cramping my style' kind that put us in a different kind of stereotypical closet that really gets under my skin.

I just think a lot of live and let live needs to be done, like a lot of you guys have said.

P.S sorry for the lengthy posts guys, is that ok here? I guess im just really passionate re this topic huh :P

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012

^ totally agree with what you've said & yeah lengthy posts are ok - most do it when they want to comment on something that they're passionate about or that isn't really that simple.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Mar, 2012

Is this thread a duplicate of this thread?
http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=541748#post541748

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012

you ramble too much. you could have made your point in a few sentences. but welcome and keep posting. :)

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Ignore that comment Dateon107. crazzymikey rambles a little when he wants also see post 70 whatever.

iammyexperiment

iammyexperiment said on the 27th Mar, 2012

I agree with the thrust of this article. The term "straight-acting" had it's origin in a time when it generally as easy or safe to be identified as gay & many guys (& girls) preferred the relative anonymity that the term afforded. While it's certainly appropropriate to challenge the use of the term in the modern world, and to consider less alienating ways of describing our preferences, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's remains a whole lot easier to be identifiably gay in inner city Sydney or Melbourne than it does in much of regional Australia.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012



I think he can respond he doesn't need you to intervene and no I don't ramble. it's a pet hate of mine. no one wants to have to read through an essay for a few points.

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Of course he doesn't need me to "intervene" but then this isn't a private conversation it's a public thread. As for rambling - I differ to you're post #77. I think Lazz said it best with his reply.



Seriously it wasn't even that long of a post.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012

Of course he doesn't need me to "intervene" but then this isn't a private conversation it's a public thread. As for rambling - I differ to you're post #77. I think Lazz said it best with his reply.



Seriously it wasn't even that long of a post.

you are so dull

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Awesome comeback Troy McLure.

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 27th Mar, 2012



ok, fair enough.



This is a bit of a generalization however. Discussion's discussion, some things work better explained in more detail some not so much, and some like reading long posts, others don't. thats ok, it's all good. :)

Even if you're a 'TL;DR' kindof person theres good chance someone down thread will comment or quote some of it in their own shorter response somewhere along the line. :)

Brorider78

Brorider78 said on the 18th Sep, 2015

I appreciate what you are trying to say, however, I am homosexual. I do not have a problem with people being themselves, but when the more feminine stereotypes scream gay pride and wave flags and paint rainbows everywhere, you are actually excluding a vast majority of homosexual and bisexual and asexual etc guys who don't relate to that behaviour. This exclusion occurs due to the constant barrage of feminine imagery and sexualised representation of "all" homosexual or sexually diverse men. I am sick and tired of guys who come out and then over steer to make a point. Make points and facts about yourself and not on behalf of those who ARE NOT THE SAME AS YOU. I never say I'm straight acting, it's usually the over the top, camp, flamboyant types that vocalise that. I fight for equality not for one stereotype, like yours, that leave a lot of us feeling like we are now the weirdos because we just want to be men who like men and don't feel the need to parade around. At your age, I doubt you have personally spent decades campaigning on my behalf at all. Whilst I'm at it, if you use the word gay, you need to take your own advise and tell me why you are always happy and never say you are homosexual. Sounds very hypocritical to me. I am a man and I am attracted to men who are not feminine and do not want to act like women. We do have differences in gender, it is a fact of life that the LGBTQI community needs to get over. I have many transgender/transexual/intersex/ gns/etc friends so unlike what the 'gay' 'community' would have other's believe, I am accepting of all types of human....glitter or not. The reason why some guys choose the words straight acting is to move away from the very confused 'gay' labels and the vocal minority of stereotypes who try to represent us all without a single clue who they may be excluding. In summary, get out into my world and stop telling others how they should be or act and just let us normal, homosexual/ bisexual, guys have a life that doesn't involve, sequence, glitter, and a camp lisping voice that is ACTED to make their point or make themselves feel better. Perhaps if you swapped 'straight acting' with 'gay' in this article the argument would still look the same, except the high heel would be on the other foot. Why not pause and ask yourself why the word 'gay' is soooooo important to you when it's the wrong definition of homosexuality.

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 18th Sep, 2015



OK, I'm old and don't have a lot of time left on this planet Mr local_warming, so I'll bite (as the young'uns say :p )

What's "VGL" mean?? :confused:

Asherbella

Asherbella said on the 18th Sep, 2015

Unless one is a paid actor, I don't think any gay person ought to be,'straight-acting' or 'gay- acting'.

Putting on a facade is very unattractive - regardless of one's sexuality.

local_warming

local_warming said on the 18th Sep, 2015

OK, I'm old and don't have a lot of time left on this planet Mr local_warming, so I'll bite (as the young'uns say :p )

What's "VGL" mean?? :confused:


Very Good Looking.
I can only think of one poster on here who'd be wanky enough to describe himself as that

wysi

wysi said on the 18th Sep, 2015

many SS'ers are definitely not straight acting. :rolleyes:

http://www.thegailygrind.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/chat.jpg

flounder

flounder said on the 21st Sep, 2015

many SS'ers are definitely not straight acting. :rolleyes:

http://www.thegailygrind.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/chat.jpg

Im surprised you can determine that from 3o metres away hidden behind a potplant? :rolleyes:

C_Road

C_Road said on the 1st

I was born into a working class family - and brought up in a sometimes rough, working class suburb of Melbourne

I attended an all boys technical school - was raised as a boy and a man - and spent my working life in the building trade

I AM ALSO A GAY MAN

I don't own a Minogue or Cher CD

And I take offense at being referred to as "straight acting"

I consider myself a masculine gay bloke - who is attracted to OTHER masculine gay blokes

If it was mincing, wrist flapping, squealing, effeminate (usually "bunged on" - for whose benefit I'm never sure) "nancy boys" I was sexually attracted to - I might just as well be a heterosexual male

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 1st

I was born into a working class family - and brought up in a sometimes rough, working class suburb of Melbourne

I attended an all boys technical school - was raised as a boy and a man - and spent my working life in the building trade

I AM ALSO A GAY MAN

I don't own a Minogue or Cher CD

And I take offense at being referred to as "straight acting"

I consider myself a masculine gay bloke - who is attracted to OTHER masculine gay blokes

If it was mincing, wrist flapping, squealing, effeminate (usually "bunged on" - for whose benefit I'm never sure) "nancy boys" I was sexually attracted to - I might just as well be a heterosexual male

I've noticed there are guys like yourself who are moving away from identifying themselves as 'gay' and just refer to themselves as same sex attracted without even mentioning 'straight acting'.

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 1st

Refreshing to hear someone so young express this opinion. "Straight-acting" implies (to me at least) someone who is completely closeted and actively represents themselves as heterosexual to friends, co-workers and family.

Masculine and feminine are much more accurate terms in terms of cultural behaviour, but even then they are really more of a spectrum and should be contextualised. I'm probably perceived as more masculine when I'm at a friend's barbeque talking with heterosexual male friends, and probably perceived as feminine when I get drunk with friends and dance to Kylie.

I'd say most of us (straight or gay) have elements of both in our lives.

Why this either/or devision? I can scream my tits off when occasion demands and can cut it with a bunch of total okers, neither of which is an act, they're both parts of me just as I can put on a threateningly upperclass highly educated accent when dealing with officious bureaucrats. On the other hand there as aspects of both so called effeminacy and so called masculinity that drive me nuts.
When young straight males make a point of advertising their 'he man' side be demonstrating to each other how cruel they can be by torturing animals in front of each other to screaming queens who absolutely refuse to take anything seriously with comments such as "Don't talk to me about AIDS, how dreary" etc.
In all of this though I see one trend that doesn't necessarily relate to the butch/bitch ( to use old fashioned terms) divide, the nauseating popularity of me too queer weddings where all the trappings of middle class suburbia are on ostentatious show from the suit, collar and tie, shiny shoe'd church weddings to the extravagant receptions with every middle class cliché ostentation on prominent display. The danger I see is we'll all end up so alike and so intolerant of human diversity the world will become a very, very dull place.

On the other hand I have one serious objection to those who push how 'straight acting' they are on queer contact sites.
Invariably this means they desperately want to hide in the closet rather than simply self-describe as masculine. OK, people have a right to hide their sexuality but don't expect all of us to jump back into that 'straight acting' closet with you. There's a big difference between being masculine and being ashamed of what you are.

Marko

Marko said on the 1st

I was born into a working class family - and brought up in a sometimes rough, working class suburb of Melbourne

I attended an all boys technical school - was raised as a boy and a man - and spent my working life in the building trade

I AM ALSO A GAY MAN

I don't own a Minogue or Cher CD

And I take offense at being referred to as "straight acting"

I consider myself a masculine gay bloke - who is attracted to OTHER masculine gay blokes

If it was mincing, wrist flapping, squealing, effeminate (usually "bunged on" - for whose benefit I'm never sure) "nancy boys" I was sexually attracted to - I might just as well be a heterosexual male

Ha! :D

wysi

wysi said on the 1st

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6tki9xw0GQ

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 1st



Are masculine men more gay?

wysi

wysi said on the 1st



did you wathch the vid?

Asherbella

Asherbella said on the 1st

There once was a gay man from Surrey,
Who left the town in a hurry,
His boyfriend was camp,
And his attic was damp,
He pretended to be butch for money!

Asherbella

Asherbella said on the 1st

There once was a masculine bloke,
Who liked cock, and enjoyed the odd smoke,
He was as camp as all fuck,
But boy could he suck,
On a dick so hard, he choked!

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 1st



Really! A real shock at my age considering the number of men I've gone through, and who've gone through me over the decades.

C_Road

C_Road said on the 1st



I've noticed there are guys like yourself who are moving away from identifying themselves as 'gay' and just refer to themselves as same sex attracted without even mentioning 'straight acting'.




If I must be categorized and identify with some tag, I have NO problem with 'GAY' - as I declared in CAPS, in my last post
What I refuse to be a part of is some so called "community" - with lesbians, transsexuals and self described "queers"
I have no associations - or share a common ground - with ANY of them

And I strongly object to unelected, so called "LGBTQIA spokespersons" making statements to the broad media, supposedly, on my behalf

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 1st

If I must be categorized and identify with some tag, I have NO problem with 'GAY' - as I declared in CAPS, in my last post
What I refuse to be a part of is some so called "community" - with lesbians, transsexuals and self described "queers"
I have no associations - or share a common ground - with ANY of them

And I strongly object to unelected, so called "LGBTQIA spokespersons" making statements to the broad media, supposedly, on my behalf

Fair enough but why aren't you making statements to the media yourself? If you expect to share the freedoms we have all fought for over the last decades maybe you should?

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 1st

He was a real good bloke, a ruck rover,
He kept up his end till game over,
In the showers he gave head,
Till the team’s dicks were red,
Then did the right thing and bent over.

To the tune of Blessed Hour When Mortal Man Retires (Lowell Mason, The Psaltery, Mason & Webb, 1847)

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 2nd

Another side to this are those 'straight men' who are utterly horrified at the idea of being had by a nelly queen. I have to confess over the year's when I've detected this in blokes I suspect are an each way bet if I plaster on the ocker talk real thick with questions like "Hey mate, eva ad a bloke give ya head?" Amazing how often that's get's you where you want to go.

Asherbella

Asherbella said on the 2nd

Was 'straight-acting' devised from the idea that to be heterosexual is more desirable than to be gay, or was the state of being 'straight-acting' employed only by gay men who wished to stay in the closet?

It seems to me that bunging on an act is deceptive. To me, the term,'straight-acting', implies a desire to trick someone into thinking that you're straight when you're not - which is dishonest. Why would one feel compelled to 'act' at all?

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 2nd

Was 'straight-acting' devised from the idea that to be heterosexual is more desirable than to be gay, or was the state of being 'straight-acting' employed only by gay men who wished to stay in the closet?

It seems to me that bunging on an act is deceptive. To me, the term,'straight-acting', implies a desire to trick someone into thinking that you're straight when you're not - which is dishonest. Why would one feel compelled to 'act' at all?

It's not that simple. There are times when to make others more at ease we behave more as they do. You're not going to get close to a builder's labourer by asking him if he supports the French deconstructionist philosophers as opposed Berklian epistemology.
We all have many facets to our character, well at least I hope we do. So for me I wasn't putting on an act when I responded to a workmates request for a head job with :- "Listen mate, when I get written permission from ya misses you're on"
At the same time I can send myself up silly when asked by straights if I'm gay by answering in my trissiest voice :-"Honey, whatever makes you think that?"

[URL=http://s185.photobucket.com/user/pickleberry_photos/media/tumblr_njix02500S1racayso1_1280_zpsgyi23cm8.jpg.html]http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x275/pickleberry_photos/tumblr_njix02500S1racayso1_1280_zpsgyi23cm8.jpg

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 2nd

If I must be categorized and identify with some tag, I have NO problem with 'GAY' - as I declared in CAPS, in my last post
What I refuse to be a part of is some so called "community" - with lesbians, transsexuals and self described "queers"
I have no associations - or share a common ground - with ANY of them

And I strongly object to unelected, so called "LGBTQIA spokespersons" making statements to the broad media, supposedly, on my behalf

I totally agree with you about 'community' and also those self appointed 'leaders' who make statements on behalf of LGBTI as if it was a homogenous group.

Tigerland

Tigerland said on the 2nd



People like that have always annoyed me Ash.

Carpe-Diem

Carpe-Diem said on the 2nd



I think we all need to stop walking on eggshells and pretending we have to like everyone and everything "queer" just because we choose to label ourselves as LGBTI. I don't consult some imaginary LGBTI bible before I allow myself to have an opinion about someone or something: I don't define myself by my sexuality.

To misquote Groucho Marx: I don't particularly want to belong to any club that would accept people like me as a member.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 2nd

I think we all need to stop walking on eggshells and pretending we have to like everyone and everything "queer" just because we choose to label ourselves as LGBTI. I don't consult some imaginary LGBTI bible before I allow myself to have an opinion about someone or something: I don't define myself by my sexuality.

To misquote Groucho Marx: I don't particularly want to belong to any club that would accept people like me as a member.

A pal of mine went to an ACON course years ago and he said they apparently drummed in the notion that LGBTI was a supportive and accepting culture, along with all the other platitudes and trite about the wonder inclusive world of LGBTI. He knew it wasn't the truth, yet other participants naively fell for it.

In my experience, I've found is that those LGBTI activists, LGBTI NGO workers, volunteers etc... who preach the wonderful LGBTI community myth are more often than not, the most cliquey, judgemental and hypocritical characters around.

Dissily Mordentroge

Dissily Mordentroge said on the 2nd

A pal of mine went to an ACON course years ago and he said they apparently drummed in the notion that LGBTI was a supportive and accepting culture, along with all the other platitudes and trite about the wonder inclusive world of LGBTI. He knew it wasn't the truth, yet other participants naively fell for it.

In my experience, I've found is that those LGBTI activists, LGBTI NGO workers, volunteers etc... who preach the wonderful LGBTI community myth are more often than not, the most cliquey, judgemental and hypocritical characters around.

What you're seeing here is the tip of the 'community' iceberg. Queer bureaucratic organisations are like any other, riddled with backstabbing, hypocrisy and petty politics. I have bitter memories of a fight I had with paid officials in the Victorian Aids Council some decades ago. Before I was on care teams I did handyman repairs etc at accommodation provided by the Council and others to people living with HIV. I fell madly in love with one of the residents and was officially hauled over the coals for 'Being unprofessional and becoming involved with a client' . We saw red and had my solicitor write the AIDS bureaucrats a letter threatening to take them to court. They backed off fast when I added the threat of going to the media. I've observed many such back stabbing episodes in similar AIDS organisations invariably instigated by those who were too afraid to involve themselves directly with anyone living with HIV whilst gleefully adding their admin experiences to their academic CV's.

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