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Image for When did straight-acting become attractive?

When did straight-actingbecome attractive?

Are people who assure you they are straight acting just subtly fostering homophobia? After all, there’s nothing wrong with being gay acting, writes Alexander Leighton.


Looking back on the concept of straight-acting, I first have to recall an artwork I saw in a gallery when I was about 12. I must have stood there staring at it for a good fifteen minutes before my Mum came over and thought that my curiosity meant that she had to explain what gay was to me. In reality, I knew what gay meant but I didn’t know what straight meant. Once I knew what straight meant, I couldn’t understand why the out gay men who were my idols at the time, would want to act like a straight man – which to my understanding and the understanding of the artist meant that they adhered to straight stereotypes and avoided gay ones so as to appear heterosexual.

So now, six years later I am still faced with the question “Why would out gay men want to act like straight men?” Isn’t the whole concept of straight acting a massive example of internalised homophobia? I mean if you say “I act straight” aren’t you buying into the idea that there is some definitive way in that being a homosexual changes the way that you act? And what does it even mean to act straight? From a cursory look at the website straightacting.com straight acting is advertised as acting in a masculine manner. If one can assume that in a man, straight is synonymous with masculine, then does this mean that gay is synonymous with effeminate? Isn’t this one of the main ideas from which homophobia springs; that all gay men are effeminate and all straight men are masculine?

Yet something I’ve heard so many times from particularly masculine men who have been attracted to me is “One of the things I like about you is that you aren’t super gay, you know, you don’t act like a girl all the time.” I think when I get told that, the guys expect it to come across as some super-meaningful compliment so when I reply “Well, if you don’t want someone gay then you’ve got the wrong person,” they tend to get confused.

It’s at this point that I need to clarify that I’m not writing this article to criticise masculine homosexual men. I’m criticising the homosexual men who think that straight acting makes them somehow socially superior and go out of their way to appear straight to anyone who they don’t want to have gay sex with. If a homosexual man is masculine then that is how he is and I can say that I am a masculine homosexual man (mostly). If he says he is straight acting then that is not how he is, that is an act. Acting means to act, fancy that!

As far as I see it, if you want to act straight and pretend to be straight when you aren’t then why not go all the way and BE STRAIGHT. I certainly won’t miss you. Straight acting is something we’ve all done at one time or another for usually one reason: We don’t want people to know we are gay. So why are there now all these openly homosexual men saying they’re straight acting and more importantly WHY DO PEOPLE WANT STRAIGHT ACTING BOYFRIENDS?

As an example, I was on a date with a guy and he pulled me into a David Jones. I wasn’t really sure what was going on (as I definitely don’t call clothes shopping a date) until he pointed out a man with dyed pink hair with leopard spots shaved into it and started giggling. I had no idea what he was laughing about until he said “He’s so faggy; it’s hilarious.” Needless to say I was angry at him. Here he was, on a date with another man, and he was pointing out and ridiculing a random stranger for having a haircut that might be perceived as stereotypically gay. After listening to him call himself straight-acting for an entire evening and then being openly homophobic, I just left without another word.

Straight acting isn’t being masculine, it’s being homophobic. You are scared of being associated with homosexuals because of the adversity we face but you’re more than happy to take all the liberties our struggles against this adversity have brought you. I came out of the closet at age 14 as a gay-acting gay and I will always be gay-acting because I am gay. Every action I do is gay because I am gay.

So if you do just use the term ‘straight acting’ why not pause and think about the homophobia the term implies and just say ‘masculine’?

And if you’re acting straight purely because you think that it makes you better than all of us faggots, poofs and queers then I think that maybe you should finally step out of the closet and into our world because You can’t act straight and be gay. It’s an oxymoron, moron.

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MarkTerrett

MarkTerrett said on the 21st Mar, 2012

This article highlights a very important issue but i think misses the point. The problem isn't straight acting or gay acting, its acting at all. Gay men should feel comfortable with just being themselves without having to characterise it as acting or pretending. Not acting straight to seem masculine. Not acting gay to fit in or be identifiable to other gay guys. Behaving exactly as comes naturally and feels normal and being honest about who you are.

moviefan84

moviefan84 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I myself am not really the most masculine type of person, (as I do have many feminine traits myself ) but I am not greatly feminine either, (i guess I am between both) which I am very comfortable being the way I am. I personally think everyone is different on how they feel about themselves and if they are comfortable being ether or between, masculine or feminine, then they have every right to be who they are, as everyone in the community is different, and if everyone was the same then it would be a very boring place.

JarrodJ

JarrodJ said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I prefer no-acting personally.

I did see a funny line on Grindr on someone's "About me" a few days ago, it was something like "You say you're straight-acting? How does that involve hunting for cock?".

Cyclone55

Cyclone55 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

here's a theory to throw into the mix:


gay guys that are more feminine are more likely to be genetically/born gay
gay guys that are more masculine are more likely to have become gay due to environmental factors


discuss.... :p

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 21st Mar, 2012

It may just be me but I think some people are taking the acting part of the term str8-acting a little to literally. As in performing. Sure there are some who do that but if we are to define by a few the actions of many well .... . I know when I use the term I'm using it colloquially referring to deeds or acts. Not performing. Maybe have a look at the definition of the word act. Sure the word acting has the official definition of performing but it seems everyone is ok with using the word gay to describe homosexual yet it's original definition was that of joyous or happy. So is it ok when people decide to essentially hi-jack a word or term & change it's meaning or not?

That's a terrible theory. As if.

youngbuck87

youngbuck87 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

It's all semantics really. I have more of a dislike for people who have a go at individuals for saying "straight acting" rather than masculine. It's proven in the last line of this feature "You can%u2019t act straight and be gay. It%u2019s an oxymoron, moron." If we have the right to call ourselves curious instead of gay and that's ok why are other individuals targeted for using the term straight acting instead of masculine? Maybe they identify with it more or the term could just be a preference in their vocabulary.

And as a personal answer to the title of this article I do find straight acting/masculine men more sexually attractive. Others may find feminine men more attractive. My point is that it's the right of an individual to make their own choice and this choice should be respected, otherwise you're just forcing your personal views down someone else's throat and that's never the right thing to do....

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 21st Mar, 2012

here's a theory to throw into the mix:


gay guys that are more feminine are more likely to be genetically/born gay
gay guys that are more masculine are more likely to have become gay due to environmental factors


discuss.... :p

Here's another theory:

gay men who act feminine are actually transgendered but can't deal with it yet. Just like lots of female to male transsexuals first identified as lesbians.

Discuss...

Nathan Sydney

Nathan Sydney said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Great article.

We are all equal - regardless of how we identify. We are all human beings.

I dont like the term "straight acting" because it is used in our circles as a badge of honour - like you're more of a man than anyone else. Call yourself masculine if you need a label but lets not use the word 'act'.

I dont act - I am me.

Sep77

Sep77 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I DETEST the term "straight acting" and I was researching and penning a piece of SameSame on it. I'm happy that this has been written as I feel the same way. To think of it another way, how would you feel if you heard an Asian say he's "white acting", a fat person say he's "thin acting", a Christian say he's "atheist acting", or an HIV-positive person say he's "negative acting". This would make no sense, even cause offence. I don't buy into stereotypes. I am gay and if I act gay or not, how would I know? What is acting gay? What is acting straight?

avb7

avb7 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

good article Alexander......there is more to this than meets the eye

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 21st Mar, 2012

This is just all getting way too silly. Ooh str8 acting. It's so controversial. It' such a conspiracy. It does so much damage. You know what does damage? A hammer - just saying. Moving on now I must polish my bearings or some other mundane but slightly more interesting than reading this crap task.

Matinsyd

Matinsyd said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I can tell this comes from an immature writer.. he's only 17.. as time goes by the most important thing most people (hopefully) learn that if just be who you are and careless about what others think then what matters.. If your comfortable with yourself people pick up on that... if you aren't it obvious .

easonc

easonc said on the 21st Mar, 2012

As they never have had a sense of self-identification that proudly frankly admits i'm gay.
the second shit,i reckon,comes to, in eyes of the straight-acting, the whole impression from the public that homosexuals are commtted to showing off feminenly,despite seems folks haven't hold such arbitary perspective, yet those life actors,evidently catch ears giving priviliege to hear that goup of ignorance with rubbish coming out in relation to homo.

Topher

Topher said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Why do we always have to put labels on each other? I have been gay for 36years, and for the first couple I was closetted because of my fear of repercussions, (family wouldn't accept it, my job would be uncertain, and friends, some whom I had spent almost 20years getting to know may not accept me anymore). I 'came out' and have been with my partner for 34years and extremely happy. Am I just 'Straight-acting' because I don't have a lisp, or gesture flamboyantly, or sashay everywhere I go? I don't think so! As we all know there are many different types of homosexuals, lesbians, transgenders and hetrosexuals, men or women, (sorry if I missed anyone out). I believe people who are 'out' live their life the way they want to and with whom they want to. All of us should be more 'accepting' of other people, if we want to be accepted. I do not apologize for myself and my partner for being butch, (because that is what attracted us to each other),or as you suggested 'straight acting'. If we were all the same or liked the same 'type' then there would be a lot more problems in the world!

rorieluke

rorieluke said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Quite an interesting article. I was talking to a gay male colleague and friend yesterday about another gay male colleague. I said that I find the second colleague very hard to talk to and was wondering about this. My colleague/friend was telling me that he 'hates gays other gay guys and is really homophobic towards gay guys'. This quite shocked me! It got me thinking about this whole concept of straight acting etc etc... (Mind you the homophobic gay colleague apparently loves Madonna, has the biggest biceps in the school and speaks with a slight lisp!)

Niko89

Niko89 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Why not just be happy with who you are. Straight acting guys, get a grip on yourself!!!
Either your gay or straight?

Shadow Rider

Shadow Rider said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Why thank you for denigrating the entire female of the species again by saying that effeminate is weak and that being effiminate is wrong.
Every comment is evidence that all you "Gays"are misyoginistic. In some way or another. Why do you never see the Lesbians advertise as strait acting?
By saying your "Strait acting " are you trying to avoid the question of "so who is the woman in the relationship"
We are who we are. How many of us accept the individual but hate the community?
Where ever the human sees diference to themselves and their own familiarity they fear it first then hate it if they can understand it. Human nature being what it is , will we ever truly gain acceptance not just tolerance from all other communities? No! As we know internally that we are inherently different to those that are strait as mainstream society force feeds modern society stereotype after stereotype that strait is the only way and the only right way. Being different from strait makes you an outcast. It does not matter how you difer,you will not be accepted.
So until the world is made up of white hetrosexual males , anything that differs from that is somehow inferior.
Ask yourself these questions.
Who am I?
Identify yourself?
What makes you who you are?
So as we are all in this together and what ever label you give yourself to identify yourself or whatever label society gives you . You are a human being first. Are we not all equal? You are not a label ,you are an individual and everyone will answer those questions differently.
So as a Human being, that works hard, plays hard, and wants equality for all.
I am me. Look beyond the stereotype, you may meet a human being behind the wall of stereotype, that surprises you with their range of diversity.

mark_

mark_ said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I'm staying out of this thread because it's a can of worms.

The notion of 'straight-acting' brings up the notion of 'actor' and 'audience'. That brings up the notion of the audience's perceptions of the actor. That brings up the notion of the actor's perceptions of the audience's perceptions.

I say 'Throw the can of worms away and just do!'.

bobbyandmimmi

bobbyandmimmi said on the 21st Mar, 2012

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lohhy7Cgjc1qhm4vl.gif

dracon388

dracon388 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Going back to an earlier point.

I don't think it's ever been said that Camp is superior.

But there is a very real issue of "no femmes" and masculine superiority, the types of guys who won't even talk to you if you don't look butch enough.

Discuss.

bobbyandmimmi

bobbyandmimmi said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Going back to an earlier point.

I don't think it's ever been said that Camp is superior.

But there is a very real issue of "no femmes" and masculine superiority, the types of guys who won't even talk to you if you don't look butch enough.

Discuss.
are we talking about grindr here? ;)
It does come down to people judging based on you, not every gay guy that comes up to you wants to have sex, maybe they just want to be friends? chat. and not feel alone??

petersj

petersj said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

What a wonderful article and great posts.
I used to read in the personals years ago "straight only only reply".
I never quite understood.
Once years ago in a bar an old "drag queen" walked into a macho(?) bar and a couple of guys remarked that they did not want people like him there.
I got very angry and reminded them that that it was guys like that at Stonewall that were our early heroes.
I still find the term straight acting odd.
I loved a comment I read once that the only thing gay men have in common with straight men is what they do in bed.

Moskoe

Moskoe said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

This is a tricky one. I don't think it's productive for us (gays) to have this much anger over this. While "straight-acting" isn't a smart term, I think it's success in being so widely used is because it names up what people want to describe. Pushing against such a successful term hasn't gone down well ("spastic", "retard" etc) unless there have been a strong push through PR, Media, Laws (racist and overtly homophobic words). This is an internal struggle/issue for us in the gay community and I don't think the straight world cares enough to consciously help us out with this... it may slowly change the more dynamic gays are on TV and film.

As for the Davey Jones incident - the guy was a total d!ck and the author did the wrong thing by getting angry, but the right thing by just walking away.

nu_wave

nu_wave said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Perhaps everyone is different and simply likes what they like? I know what I like, and thats all that matters to me :)

david_margeaux

david_margeaux said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I dont like the term "straight-acting" and if anyone messages me on Grindr or elsewhere with that in their description I reply with "I don't date actors".

I prefer to look for labels like compassionate, intelligent, sensual, warm, funny etc. These are what I am attracted to, couldn't give a hoot if you are camp, butch, masculine, in-between or otherwise, just that you are a good person with a good heart that makes me laugh.

Surely that's what we're all looking for at the end of the day?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Probably around the time guys started acting like women -_-

If I wanted a woman I'd be straight (duh!) - I like me men to look and act like men and if some gay guys have to pretend to be men then that's ok by me... so long as they don't talk.

brodes13

brodes13 said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Confidence in who you are is the most attractive thing in anyone to me. I don't really care where people fit in. There is a lot of shade of grey in this masculine vs feminine stream, and that for me is a really wonderful thing. I love sport, I love going gay clubbing, I am not into fashion, but I sound like Jack from Will and Grace - I don't fit into either end of the spectrum, and I am cool with it. I don't think anyone should talk down or be offensive to anyone for being who they are, everyone is just trying to find their place, and they don't need to be told who they are isn't good enough. Its a very immature high school mentality, and by now we should be behaving like adults.

A simple 'You arent my type' is a perfectly acceptable response, and people shouldn't get hung up on that. I wouldn't really want to be with anyone who doesn't like who I am anyway, its not worth crying over. You have nothing to prove to anyone, so why get so hung up about it?

Live and let live, I say. Nobody will ever be every ones type... And I think that is a good thing.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Confidence in who you are is the most attractive thing in anyone to me. I don't really care where people fit in. There is a lot of shade of grey in this masculine vs feminine stream, and that for me is a really wonderful thing. I love sport, I love going gay clubbing, I am not into fashion, but I sound like Jack from Will and Grace - I don't fit into either end of the spectrum, and I am cool with it. I don't think anyone should talk down or be offensive to anyone for being who they are, everyone is just trying to find their place, and they don't need to be told who they are isn't good enough. Its a very immature high school mentality, and by now we should be behaving like adults.

A simple 'You arent my type' is a perfectly acceptable response, and people shouldn't get hung up on that. I wouldn't really want to be with anyone who doesn't like who I am anyway, its not worth crying over. You have nothing to prove to anyone, so why get so hung up about it?

Live and let live, I say. Nobody will ever be every ones type... And I think that is a good thing.

If you have a 'type' it just proves you're shallow and narrow minded. Human's aren't standard like ice cream flavours, they are a lot more complex and interesting in flavour, texture, colour, smell and taste. You like the person for who they are as an individual and not what they are as a type.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I'd call myself straight-acting...

But everyone else would just call me a liar!

http://www.planeteyetraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/liberace.jpg

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Genuine curiosity: where does the 'gay voice' come from? The 'camp voice' occurs in all the english speaking countries I know of, and people call it a 'gay accent', but gays aren't raised in communes. WHERE does that voice come from? Why do only gay men seem to have it? Why don't ALL gay men have it? The only conclusion I can come to is it's put on...

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I'd call myself straight-acting...

But everyone else would just call me a liar!

http://www.planeteyetraveler.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/liberace.jpg

I love Liberace but I wouldn't let anyone like him anywhere near my coit... talk about battle for the dildos.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

things like 'thats so gay' and straight acting and gay acting only perpetuate stereotypes that being gay is lesser and a stereotype of feminine. wake up people. its always teh one the biggest homophobes who argue to the hilt to defend their use of these terms. not that there is anything wrong with men who display both masculine and feminine traits. in fact its a more balanced and healthy individual. Why subscribe to the heterosexual view of men which is doing men a disservice. its good to see actually with the metrosexual that more hetero men are being more comfortable being themselves and not putting on a front of over compensating their masculinity.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 22nd Mar, 2012



Good point Ensign-Charlie. I've created a new thread on this. :)

Hass

Hass said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I think part of the problem is the term "straight-acting" can mean different things to different people. Some people hear the word "acting" and assume it means someone is putting on an act. But "acting" doesn't always mean make believe or pretend.

Indeed, it can just mean the way people act naturally. Many gay guys just pick up the term because it's an easy way of describing things and getting to the point.

There's plenty of gay guys out there who are indistinguishable in manner/speech from your average straight guy. These guys often don't send off signals on people's gaydars. It's only natural that people will use a term like "straight-acting" to describe them.

I don't use the term myself. That's because I'm well aware that it has negative connotations. Others aren't as clued in. Don't judge them for using the term. Only judge them if they do turn out to be douches who think being "straight-acting" makes them superior.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I like the term "straight acting" because I know I'm not going to get some dude in stilettos singing "I Am What I Am" turning up on my doorstep thinking they are going to fuck me -_-

Roses

Roses said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

OMG that guy is so hot lol....

Be4r

Be4r said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Why should there be any "acting" involved with any sexuality? Just be yourself!

I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some, but if someone was either camp or super-manly and it wasn't an act, then I'd be fine with it.

Roydee

Roydee said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Just act naturally. Be true to yourself and be yourself. If that is "Too Gay" for some people that their problem not yours. In the end you have to live with yourself.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Why should there be any "acting" involved with any sexuality? Just be yourself!

I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some, but if someone was either camp or super-manly and it wasn't an act, then I'd be fine with it.

Life is a play and not a very good one:

"...Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
And then is heard no more. It is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

Everything we do is theatre:

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts..."

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Why thank you for denigrating the entire female of the species again by saying that effeminate is weak and that being effiminate is wrong.



The females of the human species ARE on average physically weaker. Just look at the achievements of men vs women in sports. Just look at who is asked to do the lifting of heavy boxes at work.

QUOTE=Shadow Rider;540180]
Every comment is evidence that all you "Gays"are misyoginistic. In some way or another. Why do you never see the Lesbians advertise as strait acting?



Lesbians have the term "femme". And you can't tell me that lesbians find feminine girls attractive in the same way we find masculine men attractive.

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I'm staying out of this thread because it's a can of worms.

The notion of 'straight-acting' brings up the notion of 'actor' and 'audience'. That brings up the notion of the audience's perceptions of the actor. That brings up the notion of the actor's perceptions of the audience's perceptions.

I say 'Throw the can of worms away and just do!'.

The wording acting has more than one meaning. For example: the criminal was acting alone.

Does this mean he was doing a performance piece whilst committing his violence against his victim? Perhaps his punching was all for show and his victim was simply the audience?

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



I'll admit, the camp dudes who lay it on really thick definitely bug me some,

I think the super camp guys ARE acting. They are like the class clown whose behaviour is reinforced because of the attention they receive from it.

dracon388

dracon388 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Not true, I know camp guys who are like it even if it's just one on one - some are like that ALL the time, love them or hate them.

dracon388

dracon388 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

are we talking about grindr here? ;)
It does come down to people judging based on you, not every gay guy that comes up to you wants to have sex, maybe they just want to be friends? chat. and not feel alone??

Not just Grindr, I'm just talking in general the "gay hating" gays, no queens, no fems, etc etc, as far as Im concerned theres no "too gay" just pisses me off that theres people who will brush you off just because you have an alternative haircut of all things.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I couldn't give a rat's arse about how anyone acts or whether or not their behaviour is contrived. I just can't get turned on by a screaming queen no matter how big his dick or how filthy he likes his sex.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.

Irene

Irene said on the 23rd Mar, 2012


What????
I love femme women.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

What????
I love femme women.

If I throw on a dress and put on some lippy will you reply to my fucking email? :mad:

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



I'll send you some shit. -_-

someoneinatree

someoneinatree said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'


I don't think this is true necessarily. And again we're seeing another false "us vs them" divide being constructed. What you're seeing is people who use the term vs. people who don't use the term - clearly the ones who use it are going to defend it, and are also likely to identify as quite masculine. That doesn't logically equate to masculine gay guys are fine with it and feminine gay guys are not. It just highlights that people who already use it are going to be defensive about its usage. I'd like to emphasise that I identify as neither masculine or feminine as I think they're pretty inadequate categories to describe complex personalities.

What I find most surprising is that people seem to be taking it as an attack on guys who identify as masculine. It's certainly not in my case. I'm against guys using the language of "straight-acting", I'm not against the identity of the guys who use that language (except if they put down other people's identities in the process of asserting their own).

I find it even more troubling that there is an essentialist/heteronormative viewpoint on sex and gender, and occasionally extending to sexuality, underpinning quite a few of the responses (on both sides of the debate). Any viewpoint that attempts to define what a "real man" is or isn't, or that that uses language like "if I wanted to date a woman I'd be straight" I find pretty regressive.

Haven't we moved on? People are people, and they should be respected as such, and I personally think we should do our best to show that respect through the way we communicate.

When all is said and done, these kinds of arguments make me think of this amazing song:

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj9yd-LdLCM"]Real Men - Joe Jackson

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I really don't know why it's even a topic of discussion.

When I was a young child I used to have sexual fantasises over all the hunky guys I would see in my mother's various clothes catalogues and never once did I fantasise about a guy in fishnets and lipstick.

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

What????
I love femme women.

Sorry I skipped a word in there "don't".

Ie.

Lesbians have the term "femme". And you can't tell me that lesbians DONT find feminine girls attractive in the same way we find masculine men attractive.

My phone has a small screen so I rarely proof read.


What I meant to say was that lesbians are attracted to feminine women just like gay men are attracted to masculine men.

We wouldn't be homosexuals if we weren't!

Bi people I think are morely likely to be attracted to gender diverse people than homos.

someoneinatree

someoneinatree said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

I really don't know why it's even a topic of discussion.

When I was a young child I used to have sexual fantasises over all the hunky guys I would see in my mother's various clothes catalogues and never once did I fantasise about a guy in fishnets and lipstick.

You seem to be universalising your personal experience. Not everyone behaves the same, thinks the same, or is attracted to the same thing. Plenty of guys out there who identify as everything from straight to gay who enjoy transvestitism, or being with transgendered and transsexual men, women and everything in between.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Tell me about it?
I've lost count of the number of "straight" guys I've fucked who turned up wearing ladies knickers... big no no... HUGE. I don't do frilly girly shit. I like my men big and butch and dripping cum (like flounder only with less issues).

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.

no thats not true.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

It's beginning to seem like a 'have and have not' kind of argument.
Interesting to see that the ones that have the main problem with the term 'straight-acting' are generally the ones who seem for the most part, not 'straight-acting'
Have a look through the replies to this thread and see for yourself, the ones who have this 'problem' with the term, and the ones that don't give a damn either way from Sunday.



Which part....?
Keeping in mind, from my perspective, as stated, that is how it is seeming to me....

I don't really give a damn about peoples perceptive behaviours... I just don't like high-maintenance people in general, irrespective of how they act.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Amen! wanna take flounder off my hands? Talk about high fucking maintenance - that guy should come with a warning and an instruction manual -_-

Doolander

Doolander said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

He did, but I believe you used it as a cum rag....

flounder

flounder said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Hey, enough you pricks! :eek:

flounder

flounder said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



Im not on your hands and you can get off your knees.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

The girls have different but just as judgmental and ultimately meaningless terms: no butches and no bi's.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 24th Mar, 2012

Which part....?
Keeping in mind, from my perspective, as stated, that is how it is seeming to me....

I don't really give a damn about peoples perceptive behaviours... I just don't like high-maintenance people in general, irrespective of how they act.

that anyone who has a problem with the term 'straight acting' are feminine and insecure about their masculinity.

lancealot

lancealot said on the 24th Mar, 2012

Some people may not be in a position to be free and open with their sexuality. This may be due to attitudes from family, friends or their own head space. So Straight acting could be someone understanding, who shares a common ground, that you may enjoy being with and yet does not put you in an uncomfortable situation when the timing is not quite right.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 24th Mar, 2012



for the most part this isn't the case and this is another poor attempt at justifying a homophobic term

aeronox

aeronox said on the 25th Mar, 2012

"Straight" and "gay" describe my sexual orientation, which in day-to-day life only comes in to play if I'm caught perving on a hot guy. The rest of the time I'm just like everyone else. But all those guys with camp behaviours would call me "straight-acting". I only partly agree with this article.

CannotOpenFile37

CannotOpenFile37 said on the 25th Mar, 2012

The problem with this article is it conforms to the premise being is more than a sexual preference and that it is your identifier, which is blatantly not true. 'Straight-acting' implies that there is acting involved, that the original settings in all gay guys is 'effeminate', therefore if you behave straight it's acting. Who cares how people act, it's really up to them what they do and do not find attractive. Just because people choose not to signpost their homosexuality, doesn't mean they're hiding it or ashamed, perhaps it means they've decided being gay doesn't define them.

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012


As you get older, you realise that your sexuality, although part of you, does not define you. When you're young, you've just discovered sex and think that's all that life's about. As you mature, you feel more secure and comfortable in your own skin, less inclined to see people in 'uniforms' and more prone to seeing the person within. If someone thinks that gays should look gay (as in, wear a gay uniform), it's more a sign of their youth and lack of maturity, imo.

darxler

darxler said on the 25th Mar, 2012

News flash buddy: My sexual identity doesn't define me and if you believe it does, then you're just as closed minded and prejudiced as he is. I don't "act"-- What the hell is acting "straight" anyway. If you met me and saw me, and told me I was homophobic for not purposely going out of my way to be extremely flamboyant... Then words can't help you. I completely disagree with you on all fronts but one: Nobody should be made fun of like that.

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Who are you talking to there, Darxler?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 25th Mar, 2012



Oh shit!

The email I mistakenly sent to my mother. I told you I haven't been quite with it lately :(

I think I know now why mum hasn't phoned me all week. Remember that pic I jokingly said I might send to you - for shits and giggles? You guessed it, due to a recent drug induced mental lapse my mother now knows that her little boy ain't so little :eek:

Irene

Irene said on the 25th Mar, 2012

LOL
I think your mum somehow knows that her little boy isn't little. And I think she's known that for quite some time. ;)

danmeow

danmeow said on the 25th Mar, 2012

i think my points have already been made.

despite being a little meaningless (i mean, reducing the entirety of straight culture to a few traits?), to be "straight-acting" is to be repressed whether it seems like it or not. if you're a macho gay, fine. put THAT on your manhunt profile, it's a valid expression of gender and there's more than just one way to be gay or male.
masculinity is a social construct and it is what we shape it to be, anyway.
i have the utmost respect for our forebears, forequeens and fairy godmothers that fought for our right to be who we are and still maintain that we are men, and be seen as human. to say you're straight-acting is worse than living in the closet, it's actively disavowing that heritage and perpetuating the misogynistic, heterosexist, cissexist culture that lumps homosexuality and gender nonconformity together as "less than" and denies respect to those who don't fit the narrow role of "traditionally male" by adopting the role of straight except in the bedroom. newsflash: that's what makes you gay, not the clothes you wear or how high your voice is.

Doolander

Doolander said on the 25th Mar, 2012



But thats not what I said

Doolander

Doolander said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Is anyone else sick of first-year university students?

twoten85

twoten85 said on the 25th Mar, 2012

Whatever happened to people just being themselves? seems like a distant memory.... :(

idksid

idksid said on the 25th Mar, 2012



but that's what it's implying. You may have your personal definition and reason why you use it... but when it comes down to it - it's a really shitty term and I do think it's rather ignorant for anyone to dismiss the negative and insulting connotations it has to every single gay person. You said about those against the term 'straight acting' are usually the more effeminate men..well that's because of how massively belittling it is to those who are effeminate. I've had a lot of trouble accepting my sexuality and for the longest time I carried around so much guilt for displaying characteristics of a stereotypical gay guy so when I see another gay guy dismissing anyone who they don't deem to be 'straight acting' I think.. what the fuck?! I have no problem with those who prefer masculine guys, that's no issue. I prefer tall guys. Different folks, different strokes etc. But the term 'straight acting' implies you're denying someone because of their sexuality - not because of their character. To be blunt, if you have a dick and you enjoy dick - you're not straight acting. It's like when a homophobic person tries to tell you that there's a difference between "gay gay" and "stupid gay" No, there's really not.

Marko

Marko said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I'm still wondering where Bi's fit into this. As a bi myself I've known guys from gay to bi and to straight that varied from masculine to effeminate. It's pointless to judge a book by it's cover, because a lot of guys never live up to the stereotype.

(Just giving a brief rundown of my post in the other thread on this) :]

idksid

idksid said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I'm still wondering where Bi's fit into this. As a bi myself I've known guys from gay to bi and to straight that varied from masculine to effeminate. It's pointless to judge a book by it's cover, because a lot of guys never live up to the stereotype.

(Just giving a brief rundown of my post in the other thread on this) :]

they're in the same boat as anyone else if they're the ones proclaiming to "act straight" or if they're being vilified for being effeminate

I kind of feel like I'm being defensive against people who are okay with the use of straight acting, which to a degree I am, but it's more a frustration because I don't see how some can't seem to realise it's insulting to all non-hetero sexuality.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I've never been on grindr or manhunt or any of those, but I have seen effeminate men dismiss more masculine men as "straight acting". It's not a one way street and everyone seems to be blaming the "straight acting" group for the term. I think it's a term many are saddled with by others, as opposed to self identifying as straight acting.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 25th Mar, 2012



I don't think this is a blame game it's more about raising awareness. Sadly a great deal of homophobia comes from gays and bisexuals themselves as a reflection of what society has put onto them. the saddest thing is that many don't actually understand and see the problem within it.

Decide what words you use and whether Your either part of it or not.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 25th Mar, 2012

I don't think this is a blame game it's more about raising awareness. Sadly a great deal of homophobia comes from gays and bisexuals themselves as a reflection of what society has put onto them. the saddest thing is that many don't actually understand and see the problem within it.

Decide what words you use and whether Your either part of it or not.

I don't even think defining yourself as effeminate or masculine is really that great. Reinforces the gender binary and the idea that "butch" women or "fem" men are somehow less female or male respectively. It's also a problem with transphobia - I know plenty of effeminate trans men and "butch" trans women and people illegitimize their gender because they don't confirm to the gender stereotype of their chosen gender.

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 26th Mar, 2012

yeah this is in insanely grey issue with no real clear cut right or wrong that has been a integral part of my gay life so far and coming out, and it brings up heaps of points.

Whats frustrating is its a two way street but theres a double standard - I agree with the point made that its wrong to 'hide' behind a straight 'act' because you havent accepted your sexuality or thinking being effeminate in any form whether your mr flaming out and proud or just have the odd 'girly moment' is wrong or putting them down;

but its the way SOME of the ultra queens, bears and 'queers' take this sortof ownership over all things gay and act superior to guys that couldnt care about the scene either way or do go clubbing and have femme mates but dont feel as if they have to be flamboyant or sexuality defined. Yes, fighting to be themselves has done a hell of a lot for gay rights and all but mainly for THEIR section of gay society being more accepted, if that makes any sense. our section feels as if its still invisible under all the rainbow flag waving.

The more masculine/non-scene /'I dont do labels, I've got both masculine and feminine traits, im just me' guys shouldnt have to cop the 'you should be grateful for all we've done so YOU can be yourself' rhetoric some of them try to hold over our heads, fuck off, theres more than one section of gay life and it feels sometimes as if were not 'gay enough' and suddenly homophobic for stating were not into the scene or the stereotype that is the most visible to greater society cause it just overshadows us non-scene/more masc guys (which also could be a misnomer cause they might not be one and the same - you could have a fem guy who hates clubbing and loves sports for example, some people just dont fit into labels).

People are always gonna disagree on this, but I think the point i'm trying to make is sometimes it feels like the guys who arent all gay rights/scene/out and proud get attacked because the only easy visible way of showing theyre different from the 'usual' gay stereotype is trying to label themselves by what theyre not, but to the scene that comes off to some as self-hatred or homophobia or even attacking the big 'gay history and fight for rights' and the scene and just runs into crap that was never intended in the first place, and it really becomes an 'us vs them' thing when its not that that at all, were different, but its perfectly ok for the scene to express itself but we cant without being labelled homophobic to our own community as a whole, like they own everything that is gay.

as for finding more masculine guys desirable to date, I certainly do and the whole 'no fem guys' thing on grindr and such is another can of worms, but I think for someone looking for relationship or hookup material only... stating just what your after to the point on those things is near impossible for anything else but to put it quite blunt, I believe sexual selection and what people find attractive/not attractive are inherently discriminatory things by nature, and theres no way around not offending someone or other when it comes down to it - some people are just too precious and the idea that everyone dosent find the same things attractive and particularly them to be unfathomable. anyways.. tangent.

If anyone understands what im trying to say, champion cause like I said - complex issue with so many threads.. (look how much I ended up writing!)

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 26th Mar, 2012

This is about the issue of the use of' the term 'straight acting' not whether people prefer masculine guys or non scene guys as you put it. there is no grey area about that.

local_warming

local_warming said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I think someone calling themselves "straight acting" is a silly nuance, but no more silly than someone taking offense to it

local_warming

local_warming said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I remember when i first started with internet dating 9 years ago, it seemed that everyone on gaydar and gay.com had this terrible habit of describing themselves as "VGL" in their profiles (glad thats died down these days) - it doesnt matter whether you are or arent, the fact that you have made up everyone elses mind for them, makes you a dick

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 26th Mar, 2012



true, but it is related and was only in the last paragraph of my argument anyway - bulk of it was the way that some who self identify as 'straight acting' be it cause they use the term as a thing to hide behind or feel superior or they use it to mean non-scene or masculine without finding a better term to use just to appease the ones that get all up in arms and offended by it;

the latter are the ones who get hit with the double standard unfortunately because to some of the femme, ultra stereotype bears and such and scene guys who 'made gay gay' and fought for our rights and all the rest of it, these poor guys who dont feel that represents who they are as a gay person feel like they cant speak out about whatever mix of traits they are which DONT fit an obvious stereotype without being branded homohobic or trying to put on an act to mask who they really are because surprise!, were not all the same flaming brand of homos. were people. funny that. :rolleyes:

a lot of people just miss the point completely and jump to the defensive when for the most part, theres no attack. its just guys not wanting to be pigionholed because theyre not OTT, not because they hate the OTT Scene, and the same goes for what diff guys are/not attracted to, although like you pointed out crazymikey, is another story. (by the way, substitute 'OTT' for 'out there' or 'flamboyant' if you feel over the top is an attack to you or offensive/misrepresentaive of your view of flamboyant guys much like were debating the language of 'str8 acting' now as well while youre at it :) )

It's just those self-righteous gay guys that are basically going 'youre not gay acting or over the top enough to be out of the closet and its cramping my style' kind that put us in a different kind of stereotypical closet that really gets under my skin.

I just think a lot of live and let live needs to be done, like a lot of you guys have said.

P.S sorry for the lengthy posts guys, is that ok here? I guess im just really passionate re this topic huh :P

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012

^ totally agree with what you've said & yeah lengthy posts are ok - most do it when they want to comment on something that they're passionate about or that isn't really that simple.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Mar, 2012

Is this thread a duplicate of this thread?
http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=541748#post541748

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012

you ramble too much. you could have made your point in a few sentences. but welcome and keep posting. :)

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Ignore that comment Dateon107. crazzymikey rambles a little when he wants also see post 70 whatever.

iammyexperiment

iammyexperiment said on the 27th Mar, 2012

I agree with the thrust of this article. The term "straight-acting" had it's origin in a time when it generally as easy or safe to be identified as gay & many guys (& girls) preferred the relative anonymity that the term afforded. While it's certainly appropropriate to challenge the use of the term in the modern world, and to consider less alienating ways of describing our preferences, we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that it's remains a whole lot easier to be identifiably gay in inner city Sydney or Melbourne than it does in much of regional Australia.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012



I think he can respond he doesn't need you to intervene and no I don't ramble. it's a pet hate of mine. no one wants to have to read through an essay for a few points.

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Of course he doesn't need me to "intervene" but then this isn't a private conversation it's a public thread. As for rambling - I differ to you're post #77. I think Lazz said it best with his reply.



Seriously it wasn't even that long of a post.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 27th Mar, 2012

Of course he doesn't need me to "intervene" but then this isn't a private conversation it's a public thread. As for rambling - I differ to you're post #77. I think Lazz said it best with his reply.



Seriously it wasn't even that long of a post.

you are so dull

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Mar, 2012



Awesome comeback Troy McLure.

Dateon107

Dateon107 said on the 27th Mar, 2012



ok, fair enough.



This is a bit of a generalization however. Discussion's discussion, some things work better explained in more detail some not so much, and some like reading long posts, others don't. thats ok, it's all good. :)

Even if you're a 'TL;DR' kindof person theres good chance someone down thread will comment or quote some of it in their own shorter response somewhere along the line. :)

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