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Image for Drag show slammed: 'It's not OK to say tranny'

Drag show slammed: 'It's notOK to say tranny'

A new comedy set for Sydney Opera House is under fire from transpeople who view the word “tranny” as just as offensive as “faggot” or the n-word.

Starring popular drag queen singer Trevor Ashley, trAnnie will be an adults-only take on the adventures of ginger kid Annie. In the show, set to take to the stage this December, a ginger-haired orphan boy seeks gender reassignment surgery.

But its title is an increasingly controversial derogatory term used to describe transgender people – and several have contacted Same Same with concerns about the dehumanising and hurtful way the word “tranny” is used to describe them.

Many feel that it is not OK for anyone who isn’t a transgender woman to use the word, and they’re also concerned about the gender reassignment plot of the show – trivialising the deeply personal journeys of real-life transpeople.

“It is so painful to see members of the GLBT community ridiculing the most marginalised and discriminated against part of our supposed rainbow family,” says one of several trans and cis-gendered readers who contacted us after we revealed details about the show last week.

“It’s not OK for a gay drag queen to mock the lived experience of a community he is not part of.”

“Trans people are not drag queens,” he points out. “Yes there is some shared history in the Sydney gay scene and some gay men may feel a sense of connection to trans women in particular, but the truth is that it’s not OK for a gay drag queen to mock the lived experience of a community he is not part of.

“The reality is that surgeries for trans people are often out of reach. The reality is that trans people all around the world are beaten, harassed and murdered every day. The reality is that trans people are excluded from anti-discrimination laws and forgotten in the ‘gay marriage’ frenzy,” he adds.

“All of this is my personal opinion and I would never speak for the entire trans community. I know some who feel the way I do and some who couldn’t care less what Trevor Ashley does. I share my words with you because I am committed to being a queer trans guy who positively speaks up for what I believe in and when I read the synopsis for TrAnnie I felt such anguish I couldn’t stand by.”

Chai Edi Palila has similar concerns about the show. Writing on the Wipe Out Transphobia website, she suspects the production “will rely on the same, usual and un-original cheap jokes and mocks made about trans women and our bodies, the so-called ‘humour’ of men in women’s cloths, usage of the offensive term ‘trannie’, focus on what genitals trans women have and why trans women aren’t ‘really women’ until we have a ‘sex change’, ‘his/her’ puns, making puns on popular lyrics to add further injury, like ‘your son will come out tomorrow’, and usage of incorrect pronouns that many girls like us have begun to expect when we see our lives talked about in the media or trivialised for comedic purposes.

“For many of these reasons above, the show is also highly exploitative of trans women, as we are such a dis-empowered group that is usually shunned when we speak out when the above is done to us.”

Sorry… but the show will go on

In response to the controversy, the show’s creator Trevor Ashley and the Sydney Opera House have released a statement, beginning with an apology.

“Sydney Opera House and Trevor Ashley wish to apologise to those offended by the title of the play ‘trAnnie’,” it says.

“The title ‘trAnnie’ is a play on words. It is a play on the musical Annie and combines the letters of Trevor’s name into the title. It is also a play on the fact that the central character is transsexual.”

Ashley himself adds: “Although I appreciate that the word may brush some transgendered people up the wrong way, the intent is not to harm, but take the sting out of what I’m sure could be a painful word for some.

“Being a part of the GLBTQI community for many years, we are people who can reclaim words that have been used in harmful ways towards us in the past.”

He explains that the production, while being a comedy, shows the transgender character in a positive light and hopes to encourage more understanding of the transgender community.

The troublesome ‘T’ word is becoming increasingly controversial as more transgender Australians voice their concern when it is used. Despite this, there is still some work to do if seeking to remove it in the context of gay male drag entertainment.

At least two Sydney bars promote ‘Tranny Bingo’ nights each week… posters for one of them are shown below.

Social

Comments

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MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 26th Sep, 2012



Doolander don't be ridiculous. The complaint about the use of the term 'Trannie' and the proposed content of the performance isn't hysterical and irrational. It's highlighting and condeming blatant discrimination against transgender/non-CIS people.

mark_

mark_ said on the 26th Sep, 2012


Doesn't it depend on which order they are?

This one was a "Brigidine". I've met "Carmelites" but not spoken to them

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 26th Sep, 2012

Doesn't it depend on which order they are?

This one was a "Brigidine". I've met "Carmelites" but not spoken to them

I have been duly told by many Catholic sisters that there is a distinct difference.

Sorcha

Sorcha said on the 27th Sep, 2012

As a trans women I think that most people may not know what real trans women looks like because all people see in the public eye is drag Queens.

In public I am accepted as a women people don't see as a man in a dress, however some straight men think that trans women are just gay men that want to suck there dick and having gay Drag Queens get around makes them think that more not less.

As other have said Trans people just want to be accepted for who they are that includes the trans women that you say looks like truckers in a dress.

I know a lot of trans people and i would not say that they look like truckers in a dress, if anything I'm more offended that you say they look truckers than the use of the word tranny/trannie

describing a trans person as trucker in a dress just shows a complete lack understanding of the for the trans community and compassion.

Ashley

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 27th Sep, 2012



I hear ya.

Just like those homos complaining about Bernardi and not being allowed to get married - hysterical animal fucking cry babies

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Sep, 2012

^ I don't complain about Bernardi and all those religious nutters. But I wonder if the title of this new show at the Opera House is more offensive than the name of the new Friday night parties at Nevermind.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 27th Sep, 2012

Reading about Carmen after her recent death it seemed that back in the 60s and 70s trans women and drag queens worked alongside each other quite happily. Why all the poison now? Another reminder of what we've lost in Sydney.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 27th Sep, 2012

Trina I've been called alot of things but never self loathing .
I hope u don't live life relying on ur assumptions.

Trucker in a wig, "freaks" Those are pretty trans-phobic things to say, and since you self identified as trans in your first post...that's pretty self loathing.

Either that or you're just a troll.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 27th Sep, 2012



Who can really say.

All that I know is- Fridays at Nevermind are gay events run by a gay promoter/ events person.

The show at the Opera House is performed by a gay man- who dresses in drag- performing a panto about transsexuals.

I would liken it to " blackface" humour.


Do you like it when the Footy Show portrays all gay men as Matthew Johns.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Sep, 2012

^ and so that puppy-faced guy in the Get-up tear-jerker marriage advertisement was another 'blackface' performer

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 27th Sep, 2012

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0005.gif


I so want one of these ............


The "gif thingy" ......... not the nun.


Thank you, MrAsh






(Mental Note To Self: Remember thread and page of "demented nun" running around. May come in handy in future. http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/computer-11.gif)

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 27th Sep, 2012

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0005.gif


I so want one of these ............


The "gif thingy" ......... not the nun.


Depending on what browser you're using just right-click & save image or you could use the location Mr Ash used to insert it in his post ie www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0005.gif.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Sep, 2012

That nightclub down on Cockle Bay had those parties called 'Gay Bash'.

I wasn't offended but I felt uneasy.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 27th Sep, 2012

That nightclub down on Cockle Bay had those parties called 'Gay Bash'.

I wasn't offended but I felt uneasy.

There was controversy about the name 'Fag bash' for the parties. If you do a search of Same Same you'll more than likely find a thread on it.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 27th Sep, 2012



That wasn't offensive satire intended for cheap laughs at the expense of a minority group.

You could say the same about any gay or lesbian actor playing the role of a heterosexual person.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Sep, 2012



Ash, dear, have you seen the show? Is Kath & Kim and Roy and H.G designed to offend bogans?

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 27th Sep, 2012



Most of suburban Australia is predominately 'bogan' to begin with, so those fictional television programs you described are an ironic depiction of contemporary Australian culture.

They have not been created to mock and ridicule a very marginalised minority group.

mark_

mark_ said on the 27th Sep, 2012

^ I think of Kath & Kim and Roy and H.G as affectionate mockery of bogan culture but I won't be seeing Trannie because I can't afford it (even though I wouldn't mind seeing the dancing dog).

local_warming

local_warming said on the 27th Sep, 2012

I'll prepare the egg shells - who wants first crack at trying to walk on them

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 27th Sep, 2012




Most kind of you Mr MyHorseLikesYou.


I think it's the "left-over" Catholic "bits" coming out ........


My believe system "prolapsed" many, many years ago .........


But the fascination (in a nice "freaky" way & not a scary "pervy" way) for the "Brides of Christ" .....


Never quite left me .......... :D http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-scared-smileys-706.gif:D

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 27th Sep, 2012

Most kind of you Mr MyHorseLikesYou.


I think it's the "left-over" Catholic "bits" coming out ........


My believe system "prolapsed" many, many years ago .........


But the fascination (in a nice "freaky" way & not a scary "pervy" way) for the "Brides of Christ" .....


Never quite left me .......... :D http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-scared-smileys-706.gif:D

One of my favorite TV series. Still love the soundtrack.

My favorite bit is at the beginning when the little girls are doing their first communion or Child of Mary of whatever they're doing and the priest is in the pulpit telling them that if they get the call and ignore it they will cast into the pits of hell "just like the most sinfull protestant". Gotta love the catholics.

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0005.gif

^^She's obviously not going to hell.

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 28th Sep, 2012

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0005.gif

^^She's obviously not going to hell.



I don't know about hell .............


But keep watching her for about a minute & you seriously become nauseous ........http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-sick-smileys-1049.gif :p:D

mark_

mark_ said on the 28th Sep, 2012

I don't want to take this thread further off-topic. But—


A group of Carmelite nuns arrived from France and took up residence in a large house in Marrickville for a few years in the 1880s until they realised they couldn't rely on the locals to supply them with food and money to pay their bills.

The head nun had some French name which was translated as 'Maria, Victim of Jesus'. :eek:


But getting back on topic— where is Datkindagal?

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 28th Sep, 2012

Everyone has the right to be offensive.


But people have the right to be offended aswell

mark_

mark_ said on the 28th Sep, 2012

^ Yes indeed!

I believe in the old maxim~

'What is offensive to one person is inoffensive to another. What seemed offensive at one time of a person's life can be inoffensive in another.

People can be offended when no offence was intended, ie. they choose to take offence when none was intended.

And now the PC Brigades have infiltrated our government they're telling us we have to take offence on behalf of other people in other countries and in other centuries. :mad:

flounder

flounder said on the 28th Sep, 2012

LOL. I tend to find, M/s Irene that you have to read, young fagster's posts v-e-r-y slowly (it's like translating Swahili to English I imagine). I know that Mr Fahed said something similar on another thread to young Mr Dougster about "almost unreadable" posts. It obviously fell on deaf ears.
Perhaps we could start a "drive" to teach this young man some basic English skills?



@MrAsh: I meant no offence to people who speak Swahili or any other African language (just thought I'd get in first & say this)


@Dougster (aka fagster) Yes, your old "Uncle" Freaky is having yet another go at you for the umpteenth time, young man! LOL. And I know you'll basically ignore this as well. But please if you can remember some of us are over the age of .... ummm, well ..... 30yrs and find your posts a hard "slog" at times to read. End of lecture!:D:D

It obviously fell on deaf ears.

So hes deaf and dumb right? :rolleyes:

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 28th Sep, 2012

It obviously fell on deaf ears.

So hes deaf and dumb right? :rolleyes:

No, Mr Flounder! ........ Just young! :):D

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 28th Sep, 2012

Oh and so old Freaky doesn't forget and I say it publicly ......

Thank you, MrAsh for the "nun gif thingy" also.

Most kind of you ......

The people here on SS are very hospitable to the more "elderly" poster, I think. :p:D:D

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 28th Sep, 2012

I think that this conversation is timely.

I abhor censorship. And I don't like it when people get overly emotional or hysterical about anything.

I also believe that intent plays a large part in things- and I don't think that Trevor Ashley is intentionally trying to ire the trans/ intersex community. But queer politics are changing.

Trans people - like gay people - are coming out earlier and more confidently. They have access to more services and information. As a result- a " new guard" of trans activist is being born.

There was a time in our political history- when we had to be confrontational / angry/ uncompromising. And when we did- trans and intersex people fought along side us as allies. They lent their voices and their bodies to our struggle.

Now we have a chance to return the favour.

We can atleast give them the courtesy of listening.

In an age when we have people monitoring homophobic language on Twitter- perhaps it's time to direct the microscope onto our own behaviours and attitudes

Barrin

Barrin said on the 28th Sep, 2012


Trans people - like gay people - are coming out earlier and more confidently. They have access to more services and information. As a result- a " new guard" of trans activist is being born.

There was a time in our political history- when we had to be confrontational / angry/ uncompromising. And when we did- trans and intersex people fought along side us as allies. They lent their voices and their bodies to our struggle.

Now we have a chance to return the favour.

We can at least give them the courtesy of listening.


We can give them the courtesy.
But - if the hype is to be believed - "we" have gained mainstream acceptance to the point of marriage. Something I'm still sceptical about. Nonetheless, having climbed that ladder of acceptance are gender issues the snake that will slide us back?
No skin off my gay nose if that's the case. :)

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 28th Sep, 2012

We can give them the courtesy.
But - if the hype is to be believed - "we" have gained mainstream acceptance to the point of marriage. Something I'm still sceptical about. Nonetheless, having climbed that ladder of acceptance are gender issues the snake that will slide us back?
No skin off my gay nose if that's the case. :)

To me the politics of words and the concept of what is offensive are both interesting topics.
Personally.
I like being offensive. But I'm not naive enough to believe that people aren't offended at times.

Iratei

Iratei said on the 29th Sep, 2012

no offense but get over it.
Humour is the gateway to acceptance.

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 29th Sep, 2012





I think I might have been a "victim of Jesus" also ........


First at" Holy Trinity", Inverell and then at "Joeys" in Sydney ........


Of course, it could've been the other way around?? .......


They could've been a "victim of Freaky" http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-indifferent-smileys-959.gif[http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-indifferent-smileys-746.gifhttp://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/thinking-006.GIF

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 29th Sep, 2012

I think I might have been a "victim of Jesus" also ........


First at" Holy Trinity", Inverell and then at "Joeys" in Sydney ........


Of course, it could've been the other way around?? .......


They could've been a "victim of Freaky"

One can only imagine what you were like!

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0010.gif

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 29th Sep, 2012

One can only imagine what you were like!

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0010.gif

I love her!

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 29th Sep, 2012

One can only imagine what you were like!

http://www.animated-gifs.eu/religion-nun/0010.gif

^^^

You know MrAsh, that I've already copied that nun "gif thingy" for my "collection.


You'll be pleased to know that Freaky wasn't expelled from "Holy Trinity" .........


They did, however, ask Father & Mother Freaky to enrol Little Freaky somewhere else after 1 year.


And they say your "school years" are the best of your life ........... Pffftttt! http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-random-smileys-440.gif

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 29th Sep, 2012



Already got first "dibs" ...... :p:D:D

dougster

dougster said on the 30th Sep, 2012



LOL. I tend to find, M/s Irene that you have to read, young fagster's posts v-e-r-y slowly (it's like translating Swahili to English I imagine). I know that Mr Fahed said something similar on another thread to young Mr Dougster about "almost unreadable" posts. It obviously fell on deaf ears.

Perhaps we could start a "drive" to teach this young man some basic English skills?



@MrAsh: I meant no offence to people who speak Swahili or any other African language (just thought I'd get in first & say this)


@Dougster (aka fagster) Yes, your old "Uncle" Freaky is having yet another go at you for the umpteenth time, young man! LOL. And I know you'll basically ignore this as well. But please if you can remember some of us are over the age of .... ummm, well ..... 30yrs and find your posts a hard "slog" at times to read. End of lecture!:D

It obviously fell on deaf ears.

So hes deaf and dumb right? :rolleyes:



sheesh dudes & dudette. any1 over 30y can read wot i say. dont get on my case. chillax man

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 30th Sep, 2012




you've been told ya bunch of old farts

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 30th Sep, 2012



And anyone over 40yrs, needs a TRANSLATOR :eek::eek::D

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 30th Sep, 2012

Now Mr Freak, I realise that in your line of work conformity is not only preferred but often reinforced with a little time in solitary confinement to allow any who might stray from the straight and narrow time consider the impact of their actions, however, here on "the outside" creativity is welcomed and indeed encouraged. So if young Dougster shows the inclination to create his own language that only he can understand, we should applaud that and encourage him, even if we haven't got a bloody clue "wot" he's going on about.

So well done young Dougster, or, to put it in terms you may be more familiar with, ya dun gud!

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 30th Sep, 2012

^^^ Yep, wot he sed


(using the "freaky" translator = ^^^Yes! What he said.......... sorry, couldn't resist :p:D:D )

Irene

Irene said on the 30th Sep, 2012

Did Dougster ever go to school. Did my taxes contribute to his illiteracy?

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 30th Sep, 2012




You'll be pleased to know that Freaky wasn't expelled from "Holy Trinity" .........


They did, however, ask Father & Mother Freaky to enrol Little Freaky somewhere else after 1 year.




Was it the tattoos?

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 30th Sep, 2012

Here is a link to an interesting article titled 'TrAnnie will dehumanise and trivialise' by Chai Edi Palila about the upcoming performance.


http://www.wipeouttransphobia.com/2012/09/23/the-upcoming-stage-show-trannie-will-dehumanise-and-trivialise-girlslikeus/

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 30th Sep, 2012

Here is a link to an interesting article titled 'TrAnnie will dehumanise and trivialise' by Chai Edi Palila about the upcoming performance.


http://www.wipeouttransphobia.com/2012/09/23/the-upcoming-stage-show-trannie-will-dehumanise-and-trivialise-girlslikeus/

^^^ OK, I'll ask!

Who's the cutie in your new avatar, MrAsh? :D:D

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 1st Oct, 2012

^^^ OK, I'll ask!

Who's the cutie in your new avatar, MrAsh? :D:D

Ahh that's Koby Abberton. ;)

EggsBenedict

EggsBenedict said on the 1st Oct, 2012

I personally think whether the term "tranny/trannie" and whether the content of Ashley's new show is offensive or not, should be decided by the trans-community. I just think for us to judge would be like saying straight people deciding whether faggot/poofter is offensive to gay/lesbian people.

And of course, I don't think you'd probably get a concensus either way, perhaps, in the trans-community, as you probably wouldn't in the gay/lesbian community. Some people find some terms offensive, others don't.

SeaMist

SeaMist said on the 3rd Oct, 2012

Thank you for those who support trans womens rights to be offended by the title of this show. For the others imagine this:

A white guy called Nigel writes a musical about the trials and tribulations of tigger (see pooh bear) Tigger wakes up one morning and finds he has turned black. What will tigger do?
Now what will we call the musical....I know Nigel....tigger....Nigel...tigger. Lets call the show Nigger!!!
On announcing our wonderful new show we get all these calls from people of colour all upset about the title. Why don't they get a sense of humour. I mean apart from being about somone who is black it's nothing to do with them. I don't find the word offensive and neither do some coloured people. What are they on about?
Does this even sound remotely ok? If it does seek help, because no one should have that degree of internalised privilege.

If no, well that is exactly what is being done to trans women. Someone not trans is deciding for them what they can and cannot find offensive, and even though they are now aware the the term IS offensive to quite a few trans women, what the hell, we'll go ahead and run it anyway, because I'm not trans and I get to decide. Just like the white guy in the scenario gets to decide what is offensive or not for people of colour. This is privilege. It's something everone here fights against when the hetero community uses it against all of us. Using it against the most marginalised parts of the GLBTI community is just as wrong.
Oh, and if you are wondering why so many of us don't like it google 'tranny'. Count how many sites there are before you find one single positive reference.
Oh and yes it does refer to transvestites, but also to transwomen. The hetero public often can't tell the difference anyway.

ammonite

ammonite said on the 4th Oct, 2012

http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=21471

ammonite

ammonite said on the 4th Oct, 2012

Are the drag and trans communities splitting up? Do they hate each other now?

SeaMist

SeaMist said on the 5th Oct, 2012

Not so breaking news. Apparently the show includes a character called Miss Trannigan who is a registered sex offender ( I believe, but can't confirm for pedophilia) . I'm not sure the stereotyping can get any worse than this. This goes waaaay beyond just using an offensive name in the title.
I think it's about time someone either pulls the plug on this or does a serious rewrite.
@Ammonite: No I don't think anyone is hating anyone and both gay men and trans women have been known to be drag artists anyway. What is happening over time is that trans women are having more of a voice than they used to. It seems we are almost the last minority that it's ok to continually lampoon and pillory without negative consequences. Some of us are trying to change that and as less and less of us are living in stealth our voice is simply becoming louder.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 7th Oct, 2012

http://hoydenabouttown.com/20120925.12350/obnoxious-pantomime-alert-traannie/

sneakos

sneakos said on the 7th Oct, 2012

im curious why, when i click on chat and gossip forum link, on th right hand side of th screen i see a banner add for this show taking up about 20% of th screen?

is ss being paid to advertise this show?

and at what cost does ss sell out to advertising that is clearly offensive to members of its own community?

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 7th Oct, 2012

Is there any formal protest campaign being organised by way of petition or protest at the Opera House?

sneakos

sneakos said on the 7th Oct, 2012

^^^ yeah im slow :)

i guess i have heightened awareness after having a post censored for using language and being told that it was "posts like mine that give same same its bad reputation"

and then i see an add - which i assume brings in money for ss - for this show

and i think that - in th world i live in - advertising and supporting his show gives ss a bad reputation so much more than me describing a big brother housemate as a handful of expletives

but thats just me :rolleyes:

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 7th Oct, 2012

^^^ yeah im slow :)

i guess i have heightened awareness after having a post censored for using language and being told that it was "posts like mine that give same same its bad reputation"

and then i see an add - which i assume brings in money for ss - for this show

and i think that - in th world i live in - advertising and supporting his show gives ss a bad reputation so much more than me describing a big brother housemate as a handful of expletives

but thats just me :rolleyes:

I agree. I asked SameSame about why they are running the ad off thread. Yet it's time SameSame made a formal statement about their position. :)

biflab

biflab said on the 8th Oct, 2012

When I saw the name of the show in the ad on SS last week I thought there's gonna be tears.

It could go from trAnnie to trAnnie Get Your Gun.


http://user.tninet.se/~acm886g/annie2.jpg

She always did have a nice pair of 38s.

mark_

mark_ said on the 8th Oct, 2012



I reckon that SameSame users —and I do mean the word 'users'— are in no position to make demands on SameSame Inc. or Pty Ltd or whatever.

I praise the fact that Samesame is here and that Matt and the others are here.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 8th Oct, 2012

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

I would be interested in seeing a meeting between Mr Ashley and members of the trans community.
Will he take this opportunity to educate himself- or will he see the controversy as just another way of selling tickets and possible free advertising

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 8th Oct, 2012

If Mr Ashley was indeed concerned with reclaiming the word " trannie" for the sake of the trans communtiy- surely he would be interested in their concerns.

He is trying to champion their cause after all.

Isn't he

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 8th Oct, 2012

Hi guys, I hear your concerns about the trAnnie ad running on site. The ads are a part of the site I don't personally have any control over but I'll have a word to the crew here and see what's happening.

Mama Catastrophe

Mama Catastrophe said on the 9th Oct, 2012

While Mama doesn't really like the whole trAnnie ad on SS - she understands that as a business, SS relies on advertising revenue to continue operating. Of course it would be great if SS only featured the wonderful advertisers like VAC or Headspace, but unfortunately these organisations don't usually have the massive advertising budget needed to be featured on SS continually. So that leaves SS seeking out other advertisers. Now when looking for sites to advertise on, business look at two things - target market and/or traffic. An example of this is something like the Liberati Gay cruise that's currently being advertised on SS - the operators want to expose their product to as many of their target market as possible so SS would be the obvious choice for where to spend their advertising dollars as it is Australia's #1 (traffic) gay and lesbian (target market) site. This works great for SS if the advertiser is aiming specifically for the GLBT market but what if their target market is more generic - like 20 - 40 year old professionals? In cases like this the advertiser would looking at sites with the most amount of traffic to advertise on and unfortunately SS probably cant compete with the traffic some other sites generate, so adverting on SS probably wouldn't be considered good value for advertisers. There is of course another variable that would effect advertisers decision to spend the dollars at SS and that's content. Now unfortunately there's always gonna be business that will neverr advertise on SS just coz its a GLBTI site and nothing we do will change this - thier loss. However there may also be advertisers who don't give two rats arses about it being a GLBT site but do care that some of the content (mainly in the forums) borders on soft core porn - and Mama holds her hand up for contributing to this before ya'll start banging on at her.

Mama thinks we should give SS a bit of slack when it comes to the advertising that appears on the site. It may not be ideal but it cant be easy attracting advertisers here given all the above. If ya'll serious about the advertising ya'll could help out though. Start contributing to the site with fresh, creative ideas that attract traffic to the site - more traffic means more advertisers looking to advertise, which means SS being able to be more choosy with advertsiers

local_warming

local_warming said on the 9th Oct, 2012


I would be interested in seeing a meeting between Mr Ashley and members of the trans community.
Will he take this opportunity to educate himself- or will he see the controversy as just another way of selling tickets

You're stealing a current affair's thunder, but first they have to screen the story about the warring neighbors who cant agree on what fence to erect between their properties

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 9th Oct, 2012

While Mama doesn't really like the whole trAnnie ad on SS - she understands that as a business, SS relies on advertising revenue to continue operating. Of course it would be great if SS only featured the wonderful advertisers like VAC or Headspace, but unfortunately these organisations don't usually have the massive advertising budget needed to be featured on SS continually. So that leaves SS seeking out other advertisers. Now when looking for sites to advertise on, business look at two things - target market and/or traffic. An example of this is something like the Liberati Gay cruise that's currently being advertised on SS - the operators want to expose their product to as many of their target market as possible so SS would be the obvious choice for where to spend their advertising dollars as it is Australia's #1 (traffic) gay and lesbian (target market) site. This works great for SS if the advertiser is aiming specifically for the GLBT market but what if their target market is more generic - like 20 - 40 year old professionals? In cases like this the advertiser would looking at sites with the most amount of traffic to advertise on and unfortunately SS probably cant compete with the traffic some other sites generate, so adverting on SS probably wouldn't be considered good value for advertisers. There is of course another variable that would effect advertisers decision to spend the dollars at SS and that's content. Now unfortunately there's always gonna be business that will neverr advertise on SS just coz its a GLBTI site and nothing we do will change this - thier loss. However there may also be advertisers who don't give two rats arses about it being a GLBT site but do care that some of the content (mainly in the forums) borders on soft core porn - and Mama holds her hand up for contributing to this before ya'll start banging on at her.

Mama thinks we should give SS a bit of slack when it comes to the advertising that appears on the site. It may not be ideal but it cant be easy attracting advertisers here given all the above. If ya'll serious about the advertising ya'll could help out though. Start contributing to the site with fresh, creative ideas that attract traffic to the site - more traffic means more advertisers looking to advertise, which means SS being able to be more choosy with advertsiers

Mama I agree with your sentiment. Yet I do believe SameSame and it's parent company Sound Alliance have an ethical obligation to not support or promote discrimination towards GLBTIQ people in any form, including advertisements they run.

SameSame is one of the media voices of GLBTIQ Australia and a lot of people would perceive it as a weather bell of the sentiments of GLBTIQ culture in Australia, especially those who are not connected to the main urban GLBTIQ cultures and if SameSame openly allows transphobic/homophobic (or any phobic) advertising in any form, they are in one way approving it.

Also Sound Alliance are happy to censor a word like 'nigger' (and snigger, sniggering, sniggers etc...) and they attempted to censor the word 'cunt' from SameSame until there was a backlash about it. So why should they allow the term 'Trannie' which is offensive to a marginalised and very misunderstood part of GLBTIQ culture and a sub group who needs as much support as it can get in gaining equality and acceptance.

As for the contribution to SameSame I honestly think Sound Alliance should do what the Community radio stations do and have a fund raising drive.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 9th Oct, 2012

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/sydney-opera-house-%E2%80%98trannie%E2%80%99-panto-outrages-trans-australians091012

spansexual

spansexual said on the 10th Oct, 2012

Would it be ok if I blacked up and cross-dressed for a musical comedy about a coke-snorting women-bashing pimp called Trigger, and called the show "Nigger" cos my real name starts with N?

spansexual

spansexual said on the 10th Oct, 2012

haha! obviously not, the N word was censored. Why is the same standard not applied to the T word?

badtrany

badtrany said on the 10th Oct, 2012



Because then I'd have to change my user name/nick name.

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 10th Oct, 2012

Mama I agree with your sentiment. Yet I do believe SameSame and it's parent company Sound Alliance have an ethical obligation to not support or promote discrimination towards GLBTIQ people in any form, including advertisements they run.

SameSame is one of the media voices of GLBTIQ Australia and a lot of people would perceive it as a weather bell of the sentiments of GLBTIQ culture in Australia, especially those who are not connected to the main urban GLBTIQ cultures and if SameSame openly allows transphobic/homophobic (or any phobic) advertising in any form, they are in one way approving it.

Also Sound Alliance are happy to censor a word like '******' (and s******, s******ing, s******s etc...) and they attempted to censor the word 'cunt' from SameSame until there was a backlash about it. So why should they allow the term 'Trannie' which is offensive to a marginalised and very misunderstood part of GLBTIQ culture and a sub group who needs as much support as it can get in gaining equality and acceptance.

As for the contribution to SameSame I honestly think Sound Alliance should do what the Community radio stations do and have a fund raising drive.

Old Freaky's not trying to downplay the importance of what you are saying, MrAsh

I'm just trying to figure out what the words are that Sound Alliance censored that start with "s"?

I'm guessing it's not "sashaying"?

Mind you, I've always thought that word should be censored! ........ Sashaying indeed! :eek::eek::D

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 10th Oct, 2012

Old Freaky's not trying to downplay the importance of what you are saying, MrAsh

I'm just trying to figure out what the words are that Sound Alliance censored that start with "s"?

I'm guessing it's not "sashaying"?

Mind you, I've always thought that word should be censored! ........ Sashaying indeed! :eek::eek::D

S n i g g er

S n i g g e r i n g

S n i g g e r s

Before your time Freaky, Sound Alliance censored the word 'cunt' from SameSame when the site was revamped. There was a backlash and Matt Akersten went into battle for his readers and 'cunt' was removed from the banned list.

[URL="http://m.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25775&page=1"]http://m.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=25775&page=1

Yet the word 'snigger' is still banned and Ammonite wrote this very clever comment!

we can't s******, yet we can still honky-tonk on a slopeing dance-floor and eat crackerjack chinkapin with Coon cheese. what hornswoggle. or am i talking gobbledegook?

i don't like double standards and rules which are enforced unevenly.


surely we are all adult enough to be trusted to say things like s n i g g e r.

and it's not difficult to press the report button if there's something inappropriate.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 10th Oct, 2012

If I were a straight guy- that had written a comedy panto about gay men dying of AIDS and how funny suicide is- you lot would be pursing your lips so furiously that your heads would cave in.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 10th Oct, 2012



Irrespective of whether or not one agrees that the word tranny is offensive, can we please stop with this ridculous "N word" and "T word" business. We're not children, we know when people say "the N word" or "the T word" what they mean, and anybody who gets offended about seeing the actual words in a disussion about the words rather than being used to describe someone really needs to get over it and stop being so damn precious.

You can't have a mature, adult conversation when your talking like a 5 year old.


P.S. Spansexual this comment isn't aimed at you personally. This has been a bugbear of mine for ages (more to do with the word nigger than the word tranny). You just happened to be the one using the ridiculous "N word" and "T word" terminology.

P.S.S. And damn it, my comment was censored. Why do I get the feeling that I'm in a George Orwell novel?

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 10th Oct, 2012

The censoring happens automatically.

Try putting a space between the letters.

It should work

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 10th Oct, 2012

We've been in an Orwell novel for centuries.

spansexual

spansexual said on the 10th Oct, 2012

I did not initially write "the N word" . I resorted to this because when i wrote the N word out in full, it was censored. I don't like being told I'm communicating like a five year old, but then, I'm sure you wouldn't like it if someone highlighted your confusion of "your" (talking like a five year) with "you're"

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 10th Oct, 2012

S n i g g er

S n i g g e r i n g

S n i g g e r s

Before your time Freaky, Sound Alliance censored the word 'cunt' from SameSame when the site was revamped. There was a backlash and Matt Akersten went into battle for his readers and 'cunt' was removed from the banned list.

Ohhhh, the word ******!!

BTW, did the threads REALLY look like that before?

Thank God for the upgrade (no offence to those in management. LOL.) :D:D

ps. I see what you mean about the "N" word (sorry Dsquare!), type it in and out comes ******

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 10th Oct, 2012



And as I said, the comment wasn't aimed at you personally your post just happened to have an example of what I was talking about.

But thanks for playing. Let me get a stool so you climb down off that high horse.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 10th Oct, 2012

For some reason. That post had me running around the entire internet looking for a picture of a horse smoking a bong.

It was extremely difficult with zero returns

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 10th Oct, 2012

For some reason. That post had me running around the entire internet looking for a picture of a horse smoking a bong.

It was extremely difficult with zero returns

Well I was stoned when I wrote it so I suppose it makes perfect sense.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 10th Oct, 2012

For some reason. That post had me running around the entire internet looking for a picture of a horse smoking a bong.

It was extremely difficult with zero returns



will a rabbit do ?



http://www.picshag.com/pics/032010/rabbit-smoking-bong.jpg

The_Freak

The_Freak said on the 10th Oct, 2012





http://www.picshag.com/pics/032010/rabbit-smoking-bong.jpg


I somehow hope M/s Bar Wench doesn't decide to use this as an avatar.

Mind you, it could've been the "before" picture to her bunny eating the cookie? ......... :p




@M/s Bar Wench. I'm thinking of starting up a "Bring back the bunny with the cookie avatar" petition.

Sadly it didn't work with Mr Sneakos and the "Bring back Mia" campaign. But then, Mr Sneakos is a "naughty" boy. :D:D

EggsBenedict

EggsBenedict said on the 10th Oct, 2012

S n i g g er

S n i g g e r i n g

S n i g g e r s

Before your time Freaky, Sound Alliance censored the word 'cunt' from SameSame when the site was revamped. There was a backlash and Matt Akersten went into battle for his readers and 'cunt' was removed from the banned list.

Yet the word 's******' is still banned and Ammonite wrote this very clever comment!

You stated in your post to The Freak that there was a banned list. So there's obviously more than just 1 word we're not allowed to use. Would anyone like to enlighten this newbie on any other terms that we "grown ups" can't use, please? :rolleyes:

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 13th Oct, 2012



Has there been any further development on this issue? Is there anyone we can glitter bomb at Sound Alliance? ;)


http://images.thecools.com/65d10f91-ae6c-4bac-88d9-1813954f2dc9_XXL.jpg

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 14th Oct, 2012



As long as it was funny in a irreverent way & possibly a musical I'd be buying tickets. Is that bad?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yC7HwPh6Es

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 26th Oct, 2012

I just heard Trevor Ashley on the radio on the way home from work and I think they've changed the name of the show. I didn't quite catch it but I think they were calling it Little Orphan Trashy. I tried Googling it but nothing came up.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 26th Oct, 2012



The "I can use any word i like because im an adult" line ironically makes people look like children.

The "publisher" of a website can be held liable for anything that is published on that website.

Additionally websites need money to operate so the "publisher" has the right to make decisions about what content they'll allow on their website in order to fulfill commercial interests.

Therefore they can have whatever banned list they like.

People are free to create their own websites, use whatever grown up words they want to and be repsonsible for content published.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 26th Oct, 2012





here you go luv , need a Google lesson :rolleyes:




http://sohweb.cdnl.sydneyoperahouse.com/uploadedImages/EventImages/TRANNIE_EVENT_570x320(1).jpg

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 27th Oct, 2012




got it off the Opera House site so presume it is

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 27th Oct, 2012

http://www.sydneyoperahouse.com/whatson/trannie.aspx


still has trannie in it as per link above but the poster has changed

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 27th Oct, 2012

Can you find me a picture of a goldfish playing the bongos

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 27th Oct, 2012





close as I could find



http://www.blenderchallenge.com/images/0048/bongo_wdc0048.jpg

shireboy

shireboy said on the 27th Oct, 2012

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/entertainment/sydney-confidential/new-name-shines-light-on-trevor-ashleys-little-orphan-trashley-formerly-known-as-trannie/story-e6frewz0-1226504182992

THERE'S been an unfortunate but necessary name change to the production title of Trevor Ashley's new adults-only panto trAnnie , which will now go ahead in December at the Opera House as Little Orphan Trashley.

Australian theatre's campest star Ashley has made the switch to avoid legal proceedings from the makers of Annie, the musical that has inspired the show, although yesterday naughty industry sources griped that it was in fact just a way for the Hairspray star to steal more of the spotlight for himself.



Sorry...but Australian theatre's 'campest star' ???!! Where did they award this ???

(* probably the same place where they award World Treasurers !!)

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 30th Oct, 2012

[URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=29369"]http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=29369

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 31st Oct, 2012

http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/10/biden-says-transgender-discrimination-civil-rights-147761.html

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