When looking for love,what’s with all the hate?

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So I’ll admit, I have an on / off again relationship with Grindr which I’m sure is commonly shared amongst members of our community. My biggest qualm though isn’t what you’d think – no, it’s not the countless headless torsos, weirdoes or instability of the app itself. It’s all this internalised homophobia.

C’mon guys, what with all this ‘No Femmes’, ‘No Asians’, ‘White only’, ‘Str8 Acting’ bullshit I’m seeing? In the time I’ve had the app, I’ve come across an alarming number of profiles with this type of prolific racism and discrimination and it’s only getting worse, scarier is the fact that it’s somehow deemed ‘acceptable’ amongst the user base.

Somehow it seems we have de-regulated traditional means of human interaction by creating a virtual environment where hiding behind a profile picture (that usually looks nothing like it’s user – we’ve all had that experience, right?) and witty pick-up lines is an acceptable place for hurtful and unnecessary commentary.

“It’s only getting worse. It’s somehow deemed ‘acceptable’ amongst the user base.”

Internalised homophobia and oppression is generally used to describe when an individual has been taught that heterosexuality is ‘the way to be’. Usually growing up in an environment that has created a perception that a certain type of masculinity and femininity is the correct portrayal of those genders. Even though these individuals may come out and be active members of our community, they bring with them, a certain perception of what is deemed acceptable for a man and woman to ‘be’.

I’ve experienced it first hand with a guy I dated a little while ago, we caught up after things fizzled out between us and he was telling me about a new guy he was seeing (some guys move faster than others I guess) whilst I scoffed down on my Baskin Robbins. He went on to say that he met the new guys friends and one of them dressed ‘strangely’… wearing heels to be exact.

He went on to say how completely ‘wrong’ that was; somewhat trying to engage me into agreeing with him – which I completely had no intention of doing. In his mind, a man shouldn’t wear heels with the simple justification of it not being ‘manly’, but who was he to sit there and judge a complete stranger on the basis of his own perception of masculinity? I went on to state that being two young gay men living openly and facing adversity everyday, we should not be initiating negative judgment on those who are different – don’t you agree?

We’ve got idiots in parliament saying that if our unions can be marriages we will open doors for beastliest (Oh, I can’t believe that guy was serious – I mean really Cory Bernardi? Really? ), our community has an alarming youth suicide rate and with the general inequality we face in our daily lives – why are we, members of our beautiful and diverse community perpetuating this internalised hate? Vilifying people because of who they are, haven’t we all lived through enough to know that this is wrong?

Whether it’s an app, a comment or a conversation – We shouldn’t be casting the first stone.


Photo by Simon Lee, via the Sexual Racism Sux Facebook page.

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Comments

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JustJames

JustJames said on the 1st Oct, 2012

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS ARTICLE! It's BRILLIANT and discussion about this has been happening in small circles for a little while now, but I'm so glad you have given this a voice.
It is really distressing to read some of these half-wit comments though. ARE YOU PEOPLE FOR REAL? Trying to compare all of this with a preference for a food? Or saying that Grindr is a hook up app which is designed to save time? What WEAK, SHALLOW and INCONSIDERATE remarks!
1. As a small and diverse segment of society, we are now constantly expecting acceptance, equality and respect for all human on this planet. We should be united and loving towards one another%u2026 it's not only important for a vibrant community%u2026but a united front propels us quicker towards our journey to equality. By YOU making such remarks, you have the potential to isolate, depress/opress your fellow brothers and sisters%u2026 in what can already be a harsh, lonely and poisonous scene. This ability to understand others feelings and emotions is called EMPATHY, you should practice it!
Just imagine how reading something (personal opinion or not) that personally excluded or discriminated against you!? Do you have any idea how awful this may make someone feel? Someone just coming out? Someone who has never had the opportunity to CONNECT with anyone else like themselves?

You are ALWAYS allowed your preference towards anything (albeit chauvinistic), but this apparent CRUCIAL NEED to save time (on what, by the way, YOU have DEFINED, as a 'Hook Up App' does NOT give you any type of right to express shallow, discriminatory and hurtful rubbish.

Beyond the rage I feel towards you, I feel more sadness and heartbreak for you. Unless you reach a level of conscious understanding of how powerful your thoughts, words and actions can be%u2026 you will continue to make connections which are not real%u2026 succumbing to the superficial tediousness of all thats wrong with this community.
Perhaps once you were vulnerable and got hurt so badly by the gay scene that you've created a passive existance devoid of REAL connection? Well here's an idea%u2026 stop paying that hurt forward%u2026 the rest of us are on a path towards a beautiful and harmonic existance%u2026 and we're not interested in carrying you along with us into it%u2026

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 1st Oct, 2012



THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS ARTICLE! It's BRILLIANT and discussion about this has been happening in small circles for a little while now, but I'm so glad you have given this a voice.
It is really distressing to read some of these half-wit comments though. ARE YOU PEOPLE FOR REAL? Trying to compare all of this with a preference for a food? Or saying that Grindr is a hook up app which is designed to save time? What WEAK, SHALLOW and INCONSIDERATE remarks!
1. As a small and diverse segment of society, we are now constantly expecting acceptance, equality and respect for all human on this planet. We should be united and loving towards one another%u2026 it's not only important for a vibrant community…but a united front propels us quicker towards our journey to equality. By YOU making such remarks, you have the potential to isolate, depress/opress your fellow brothers and sisters… in what can already be a harsh, lonely and poisonous scene. This ability to understand others feelings and emotions is called EMPATHY, you should practice it!
Just imagine how reading something (personal opinion or not) that personally excluded or discriminated against you!? Do you have any idea how awful this may make someone feel? Someone just coming out? Someone who has never had the opportunity to CONNECT with anyone else like themselves?

You are ALWAYS allowed your preference towards anything (albeit chauvinistic), but this apparent CRUCIAL NEED to save time (on what, by the way, YOU have DEFINED, as a 'Hook Up App' does NOT give you any type of right to express shallow, discriminatory and hurtful rubbish.

Beyond the rage I feel towards you, I feel more sadness and heartbreak for you. Unless you reach a level of conscious understanding of how powerful your thoughts, words and actions can be… you will continue to make connections which are not real… succumbing to the superficial tediousness of all thats wrong with this community.
Perhaps once you were vulnerable and got hurt so badly by the gay scene that you've created a passive existance devoid of REAL connection? Well here's an idea… stop paying that hurt forward… the rest of us are on a path towards a beautiful and harmonic existance… and we're not interested in carrying you along with us into it…

This discussion has been occurring for a long long time actually and the web site Sexual Racism Sux has been going since the early 00's. http://www.sexualracismsux.com/

Also there are many threads on SameSame about this topic and particulary racism and discrimination on websites and apps.

[URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5927"]http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=5927

[URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=26315&page=1"]http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=26315&page=1

[URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=28380"]http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=28380

[URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=28510"]http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=28510

http://m.samesame.com.au/features/8322/From-India-to-Australia-united-we-stand.htm

http://www.samesame.com.au/features/6455/Im-a-big-big-girl-in-a-gay-gay-world.htm

local_warming

local_warming said on the 1st Oct, 2012

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS ARTICLE! It's BRILLIANT and discussion about this has been happening in small circles for a little while now, but I'm so glad you have given this a voice.
It is really distressing to read some of these half-wit comments though. ARE YOU PEOPLE FOR REAL? Trying to compare all of this with a preference for a food? Or saying that Grindr is a hook up app which is designed to save time? What WEAK, SHALLOW and INCONSIDERATE remarks!
1. As a small and diverse segment of society, we are now constantly expecting acceptance, equality and respect for all human on this planet. We should be united and loving towards one another%u2026 it's not only important for a vibrant community%u2026but a united front propels us quicker towards our journey to equality. By YOU making such remarks, you have the potential to isolate, depress/opress your fellow brothers and sisters%u2026 in what can already be a harsh, lonely and poisonous scene. This ability to understand others feelings and emotions is called EMPATHY, you should practice it!
Just imagine how reading something (personal opinion or not) that personally excluded or discriminated against you!? Do you have any idea how awful this may make someone feel? Someone just coming out? Someone who has never had the opportunity to CONNECT with anyone else like themselves?

You are ALWAYS allowed your preference towards anything (albeit chauvinistic), but this apparent CRUCIAL NEED to save time (on what, by the way, YOU have DEFINED, as a 'Hook Up App' does NOT give you any type of right to express shallow, discriminatory and hurtful rubbish.

Beyond the rage I feel towards you, I feel more sadness and heartbreak for you. Unless you reach a level of conscious understanding of how powerful your thoughts, words and actions can be%u2026 you will continue to make connections which are not real%u2026 succumbing to the superficial tediousness of all thats wrong with this community.
Perhaps once you were vulnerable and got hurt so badly by the gay scene that you've created a passive existance devoid of REAL connection? Well here's an idea%u2026 stop paying that hurt forward%u2026 the rest of us are on a path towards a beautiful and harmonic existance%u2026 and we're not interested in carrying you along with us into it%u2026

I look forward to you controlling my life in future - what will you permit me to have for breakfast

MyHorseLikesYou

MyHorseLikesYou said on the 2nd Oct, 2012

....they seem to be missing the point.

A preference is a positive thing, and is not a blanket statement.

Actually that is the point. a preference isn't a blanket no it's just a not right now.



As I said I do agree with some points of the OP to some degree (ie the negativity) however I'm yet to see a whole heap of profiles that say "I hate..." as opposed to "No ...". Hate is different to preference.

half-wit .... WEAK, SHALLOW and INCONSIDERATE.....
....chauvinistic....
....shallow, discriminatory and hurtful....

Just the points I found most interesting for someone preaching love, understanding & acceptance. Seriously you make way too many assumptions & really not quite enough objective points.

....the rage I feel towards you....
....sadness and heartbreak for you....
....we're not interested in carrying you along with us....

Now for the actual response. Oh dear. Did you really take offence to the fruit comment? LMAO. Preference is preference after all. Whether that be for one thing or another. There is a big difference to "presenting a united front" & blindly following or denying ones individualism. Actually I do have the right to be shallow & hurtful if I so desire. There ain't no law against being a douche but it was nice of you to recognise my right to an opinion. You may want to discuss you're acceptance of some rights & denial of others with some of our wonderful politicians. Maybe a common thread there.

Just to finish, might be an idea to refrain from making unfounded assumptions about someone on a forum as a result of an opinion, post or point they were trying to make. But it's true I was once vunerable & hurt by the gay scene oh please carry me with you to this wonderful existance you describe......LOL. To quote Mrs Brown "I used to say Fuck Off now I just say That's nice".



I don't know about that. I have seen some nasty stuff in my time that was all face to face. That said though the net does remove the ability to relay or react to someones body language but I guess that's a trade off some people are willing to accept in the interest of access, time & possible outcomes.

Mama Catastrophe

Mama Catastrophe said on the 2nd Oct, 2012

Oh dear Lord – Are we still banging on about this?

Whether it is wrong or right you are never going to stop this sort of language being used on profiles. Do you really think Hung_Guy_Oz or Want_Cock_Now really give two rats arses about how others feel after reading their profiles? There’s no restorative justice here and these guys will never have to come to face to face with the people who are hurt by their words – they are safely ensconced behind their screens and there’s sweet fuck all you can do to change them.

Mama’s advice – if you don’t like these sites or can’t handle the comments – don’t use them! We live in a highly critical world and there will always be folks who openly express that they don’t like the way you look, act or think. In most cases there are laws to protect you from this but in the case of Grindr etc, these folks aren’t breaking any laws so you need to toughen the fuck up or you’ll go under - coz no amount of bitching and moaning is gonna change it. Either that or go start your own dating site where the guidelines state that only positive language can be used and any profile not adhering to this will be banned.

Re the use of “I prefer….” instead of “No…..” – Mama thinks it’s a crock of shit. Posting “I prefer caucasian, masculine, slim guys” sends the exact same message as “No Asians, Blacks, Fats or Fems”. You can argue the semantics of the two sentences all you like, but too an Asian, Black, Fat or Effeminate guy the message would be the same – don’t bother contacting the owner of this profile.

Kembi

Kembi said on the 3rd Oct, 2012

I'm really happy that we're finally beginning to talk about this issue within our community, because its been a long time coming. We are part of the information age generation, yet we've been extremely dishonest with ourselves.

Mobile apps such as Grindr have provided the means for a shocking amount of sexist and racist behaviour to be freely expressed in a digital space, and there haven't been open discussions about the adverse affects this is having on the mental health of a community that puportedly celebrates 'diversity'.

We're happy to apportion blame to heterosexuals with conservative or discriminatory views, but some of the worst offenders of discrimination are us. It's high time we owned up to that truth; it's high time we stop regarding homophobia in terms of a simple dichiotomy between gay and straight, with gays being on the defensive--no, we are as much the pepetrators of our own bigotry by pepetuating the homophobia we've learnt.

We have ethical responsibility to police hateful, discriminatory behaviour online (be it direct or masked), and it saddens and disgusts me that we've made outlets for internalised homophobia, heterosexism and racism normal and 'acceptable' within our online communities by not acting upon discrimination--so much so that marginalised groups almost seem to expect that they'll be the brunt of the hate that the unspoken-about caste system produces (which, yes, is a power institution that very much exists)...

Perhaps instead of 'no femme Asians' we should be writing 'no intolerant morons'...

Another thing, why is Grindr so eager to censor any profile that shows an inch or two more flesh than it should and yet it is so reluctant to censor racial and sexual hate? I'm sorry, but this doesn't speak very well about the priorities of a supposedly-allegedly social networking tool (aka online beat)....

:)