View Full Version : Transgender Barred From Lesbian Event
5th November 2007, 12:05 PM
It's probably not my place to say, but I tend to think that this private group, like the US Scouts, should be able to discriminate - but making that policy public and open to challenge and discussion is a good thing.
5th November 2007, 12:34 PM
I do agree that groups should be able to choose who joins them. I guess what makes it hard for me to swallow with womens groups blocking trans women from inclusion is the fact that many of us trans-women detested living in our male born gender so much that we had no choice but to become female. Statistics have shown a larger percentage of post op trans women end up dating women therefore being lesbian.
Myself personally would love to be able to go to these events and be fully accepted as a woman because everybody else in my life accepts it and most people in society never even pick that I'm TS away from my public music image. I wouldnt be going to this event to pick up a girl anyhow instead for the companionship, workshops and issues faced by women...
In my early days of transition people spat on me in public, predominantly straight men. Funny how 5 years later the abuse by these same men has shifted from name calling and general nastyness to sexist wolf whistles from car windows.
These days I am treated and discriminated against more for being female than TS. I honestly believe some womens groups seem so scarred by men that they refuse to believe a m2f transsexual is nothing but a sexist man and will never change.
I wonder what thier stance is on F2M's as they mostly populate the lesbian community??
5th November 2007, 03:23 PM
Why do Sappho's Party find trans women threatening?
5th November 2007, 05:57 PM
...and what's so good about them that transgirls would want to go there over any of the countless other places where they ARE accepted? Why would anyone want to go to such a close-minded "party"? Boring.
6th November 2007, 07:52 PM
I think excluding trans* women from women only spaces is really naff! Particularly since, as dreadcircus highlighted, many transwomen face the same sexist discrimination that their lesbian sisters experience.
On the F2M front - my experience as a transguy has been really mixed. Some people in the community have been great and accepting - other circles, especially radical lesbian feminist circles, have been really exclusive. I've been told by some lesbians (and certainly not all thankfully!) that transitioning (f2m) is selling out to the patriarchy in order to cash in on male privilege. While I do feel that being perceived as male has certainly brought with it some degree of potential privilege (I say potential as I try to remain aware of it and disrupt it where ever possible) - it is certainly not the motivation for transition!
6th November 2007, 08:21 PM
I partly agree with morgan- some groups should be able to exclude some people. Mostly because some people may hinder or negatively affect the group and don’t gain any benefit from the group. (And personally I believe a plethora of similar reasons should exists to do so.)
That being said, I really can't understand a group who are calling themselves a "Lesbian" group would exclude someone who is in a lesbian relationship?
I’m looking forward to seeing what the SA Equal Opportunity Tribunal would find out and decide on about this case. It would be a downright shame if our community (who had, and still is experiencing discrimination) is found resorting to the same dirty old tactics. I really hope it is just a misunderstanding.
7th November 2007, 09:56 AM
I'm not saying that I agree with the club's decision to discriminate on this issue - it seems ill judged and, frankly, old fashioned :)
7th November 2007, 11:35 AM
hmmm... i am all for clubs having the right to say 'you can come in' and 'you can't come in'. but i guess what this boils down to is that they don't regard this woman as a 'real' woman.
i guess that's gotta hurt.
9th November 2007, 08:53 AM
Is this a case about discrimination...or harassment? If opening a group for public support means compulsory acceptance of everyone what does this mean for Australia's vaunted right to express our individuality? Are we heading towards a boring average?... It's tough juggling things like moral values so that they work. Let the girls be Tracie. Start your own group and invite the lesbians who want to support you to do so. I'll bet there are plenty out there who will.
9th November 2007, 04:49 PM
Yeah, clubs by definition exclude people but that doesn't give them the ability to exclude people for stupid reasons.
9th November 2007, 05:06 PM
Whats the fuss about one may ask?
The solution is simple
Its a lesbian group for lesbians.
The trangender tracy if she has liasons with women(ie lesbian sexual tendancies) then she has a right to join,But if tracy has sexual liasons with men which makes her "hetrosexual" she has no right .
9th November 2007, 07:14 PM
Tracey O'Keefe is a woman and she is in a lesbian relationship and that much is established in the article.
Wouldn’t it be hypocritical to deny her services or acceptance by any L&G group if the only reason given is her transsexuality? (Is ‘transsexuality’ a word? Should it be ‘trans-sexuality’?)
Anyway, that’s my point. What right and arrogance do I have to ask for acceptance if I can’t do the same in turn?
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