Is this common?

[Mama Catastrophe]

Hi gals,
Mama has a lesbian housemate who she has known for many years and Mama is beginning to think she may have been sexually abused and is pretty fucled up by it.

This gal has always been butch (sorry if that’s offensive but Mama don’t know any other way to describe it), but while Mama has met some butch gals over the years this gal is militant. There is absolutely no sense of her feminine side. She only dresses in mens clothes (including underwear). Even if an item of women’s clothing is quite masculine she would not wear it as the fastenings are on the wrong side. In the middle of summer she wears jeans and long sleeved shirts and always wears a very tight t-shirt which Mama thinks is to flatten her boobs. When filling out forms she will not tick a box that says Miss, Ms or Mrs – she just leaves it blank and the same for the male or female boxes. Now for years we just thought it was just her being butch and each to their own – she’s not hurting anybody but after beginning to live wither Mama has begun to think there may be more to it.

The first odd thing that Mama noticed is that this gal sleeps fully clothed – jeans and a shirt and a belt. Its almost as though she feels vulnerable sleeping in anything less. The second thing is that when she is watching TV alone she has the volume down and uses the subtitles – which makes Mama think she’s paranoid about someone creeping up behind her so she keeps the sound down so she can hear any noises around her. The third thing is that she shows absolutely no interest in finding a partner or even casual sex for that matter – she’s just content to sit at home night after night on her own

So what Mama is asking is if its common for gals these days to be so militant about denying their femininity. Mama knows that some of he older gals tended to favor the very butch look but this gal is only in her early 30s and Mama doesn’t see many younger gals like this . As Mama said it might just be her way but the lengths this gal goes to look manly combined with the other stuff have got her concerned.
Thanks

[ammonite]

I don't think any of that necessarily means she was sexually abused!

I like watching the TV with the sound down and the subtitles on too; because the music and commercials are too loud, and then I have trouble understanding what people are saying without the subtitles.

And sometimes when it's cold and you're tired it's nice to climb into bed with your clothes still on, but I guess if she does it all the time that is unusual.

Maybe she feels some gender dysphoria.

Wearing pants and long sleeve shirt all the time - maybe she has a skin condition? Or again maybe gender dysphoria.

As for not dating, if she is 'stone' I bet it's hard nowadays to find an understanding girl.
Or maybe she's just not interested at the moment, or shy?

[Mama Catastrophe]

It could all be coincidental but there are warning bells going off in Mamas mind. She did consider Gender Dysphoria but its just the other stuff that this gal does that make Mama think its more. The TV volume could be what you suggested but its not just the TV - she just doesn't like any noise around her. She doesn't listen to music or anything. The sleeping with clothes on is also year round - doesn't matter what the temperature is she goes to bed fully clothed complete with belt - it really seems as though she doesnt want to make herself vulnerable to attack by having distracting noise around her or sleeping in clothing that could easily be removed

Mama just doesn't know. In her work Mama has done a lot of research on people who have been sexually abused and in many cases the victim has changed their appearance after the attack to something they believe would make them sexually undesirable to the perpetrator - which in this case Mama would say was a bloke. Many also develop a fear of sexual intimacy and as Mama said this gal shows no interest in sex - Mama has known her for 15 years and to her knowledge there has not been one sexual partner

Just don't know???

[ammonite]

she could be sensitive to noise

is she good or awkward with new people?

you can be asexual without having been abused.

[Mama Catastrophe]

Very awkward with people - very quiet and really just sits in the background at any social sort of event.

Its not the individual things that this gal does that cause Mama concern - its just that combined they could suggest something sinister has happened to this woman. Perhaps Mam has just been working with damaged people for too long and she is reading too much into it, but she would hate to think that this gal was abused and Mama wrote off the warning signs and did nothing

[paxie]

Sleeping fully clothed all year on is definitely NOT common. I wonder if she ever told you why since you have been friends with her for a long time?

I have known a friend who is asexual but they are happy with their decision and able to interact socially .

Maybe this will help : http://www.casa.org.au/index.php?page_id=147

It might be best to call CASA - Center Against Sexual Assault : 1800 806 292 and explain your worries and see what they say. There is no harm doing so and you are a good friend Mama :) *hugs*

[just_dance]

I have to admit, her behaviour does seem rather 'abnormal' for lack of a better word. we all have our little quirks, but a lot of these indicate that it could quite wasily mean she was abused. Especially if she sleeps with a belt on too. You'd want a bloody good reason for that!

I like Paxie's idea. We aren't really qualified to know if she's just a very quiet person who has gender aphoria. Especially as we don't know her in person. But it sounds to me like there are some very unusual behaviours there so hopefully CASA can help you sort out if there's something wrong and what to do if that's so. Considering she's been like this for 15 years, you will probably struggle to find a way to help her. She may not want help either, even though she needs it.

Keep us updated though. I hope all goes well xx

[ammonite]

Very awkward with people - very quiet and really just sits in the background at any social sort of event.i have a friend who's son is sensitive to noise and awkward with people and has some odd habits, and he has asperger's syndrome - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

but i am all those things, and i don't
maybe some people are just odd

Its not the individual things that this gal does that cause Mama concern - its just that combined they could suggest something sinister has happened to this woman. Perhaps Mam has just been working with damaged people for too long and she is reading too much into it, but she would hate to think that this gal was abused and Mama wrote off the warning signs and did nothingbut is there anything you can you do anyway?

[ammonite]

Especially if she sleeps with a belt on too. You'd want a bloody good reason for that!

yeah that must be uncomfortable

[Mama Catastrophe]

i have a friend who's son is sensitive to noise and awkward with people and has some odd habits, and he has asperger's syndrome - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

but i am all those things, and i don't
maybe some people are just odd

but is there anything you can you do anyway?

Well in reality there's not a great deal Mama can do personally coz although she is qualified in counseling its unethical to practice on people you know. However if this gal did disclose to Mama then Mama could link her into a heap of support services who specialize in this - the best one being the aforementioned CASA. Mama might ring CASA and ask their opinion coz one of the hardest things is how to broach the subject with this gal coz as Mama said she is a friend and may feel embarrassed to discuss it with someone she knows personally.

Thanks for your input guys
xxx

[ItsAllInTheEyes]

i have a friend who's son is sensitive to noise and awkward with people and has some odd habits, and he has asperger's syndrome - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

but i am all those things, and i don't
maybe some people are just odd

but is there anything you can you do anyway?

Great minds.....I was thinking the same thing. My son is Aspie, and he can do/be some of the things that you and Mama described. It is quite unusual in girls though, but not unheard of.

Mama, you mentioned that she sleeps fully clothed with her belt on. Is this something she has disclosed to you? If so, do you think it might be her way of reaching out? If not, how do you know she sleeps like that? Not implying anything unsavory, but privacy may be issue for her?

If she has been sexually abused, she may not be ready to deal with it, and if she isn't disclosing anything or reaching out to you in other ways, there is nothing you can do to make her deal with it. I'm probably just telling you stuff you already know about abuse, but the mind won't allow her to confront anything that she isn't ready to deal with...inbuilt coping mechanism. I know of many women who have never disclosed, or did so much later in life. Some knew, others had no idea as it had been pushed so far back (more specifically related to severe trauma). Sometimes a person won't disclose until they feel secure ie. home, people in their life etc. which may be many years after the event.

Here are some of the common disorders that can be associated with abuse:

Post-traumatic stress disorder
Panic attacks
Depression
Dissociation
Dissociative Identity Disorder
Bipolar
Schizophrenia
Eating disorders
Personality disorders

Some of those disorders (excluding PTS) can also be present without anything sinister happening to the indivual. Equally, stats say 1 in 4 girls are sexually abused(based on whats reported) , but not alot develop traits as you've decribed in your friend.

Lack of sexual apetite doesn't always mean abuse. Promiscuity can be a sign, particularly with childhood sexual abuse as a result of long term grooming.

My suggestion to you, as her friend is to keep lines of communication open. Reassure her that you are always there if and when she ever needs to talk. If she isn't happy with her life, suggest she speak to someone neutral/a professional.

I've met some very butch women, some of whom are the way you describe in some ways. I don't know enough about women denying their femininity to offer much. I don't know any Trans F2M, but maybe our trans sisters may be able to shed some light?

[just_dance]

bumping. Curious to know if there's been any changes. Did you ring CASA mama? hope things are going well!

[djak]

yea, did the poor bugger survive all those people trying to make her get "in touch" with her feminine side? *cough

[gold_femme]

i recently slept with someone that keeps her jeans and belt on in bed - i thought of this thread but i think her reasons may be quite different...but thought id share it here to add another angle.

we had spoken about it before she came over, she said it makes her feel comfortable and safe, she sleeps in her jeans most of the time - including in her own bed alone...when she stayed here, in the morning it came to me that the reason she does it is so she can leave at any time without any fuss - she is a player and is often in trouble or drama of some sort...i asked her if she wears them so she can leave in the middle of the night without any 'drama' - she laughed and agreed.

on another note - in agreement with djaks comment - im not sure about some of the discussion around femininity or butch here - i think we need to be careful about projecting our ideas of this onto mama's housemate.

[trina2004]

So what Mama is asking is if its common for gals these days to be so militant about denying their femininity. Mama knows that some of he older gals tended to favor the very butch look but this gal is only in her early 30s and Mama doesn’t see many younger gals like this . As Mama said it might just be her way but the lengths this gal goes to look manly combined with the other stuff have got her concerned.
Thanks

I don't know what to think about this particular situation, but in general I don't think dressing butch is denying your femininity.

[TeganM3]

It could all be coincidental but there are warning bells going off in Mamas mind. She did consider Gender Dysphoria but its just the other stuff that this gal does that make Mama think its more. The TV volume could be what you suggested but its not just the TV - she just doesn't like any noise around her. She doesn't listen to music or anything. The sleeping with clothes on is also year round - doesn't matter what the temperature is she goes to bed fully clothed complete with belt - it really seems as though she doesnt want to make herself vulnerable to attack by having distracting noise around her or sleeping in clothing that could easily be removed

Mama just doesn't know. In her work Mama has done a lot of research on people who have been sexually abused and in many cases the victim has changed their appearance after the attack to something they believe would make them sexually undesirable to the perpetrator - which in this case Mama would say was a bloke. Many also develop a fear of sexual intimacy and as Mama said this gal shows no interest in sex - Mama has known her for 15 years and to her knowledge there has not been one sexual partner

Just don't know???
hmm from what you have described these are not just quirks or things you can say are just her personality... there is clearly something obviously torturing this women. What no one can really say! but you may want to sit her down and just say to her i know that there everyone has a past and that your past can sometimes change who you are or affect your ongoing happiness.. but i just want you to know that i am here for you as a friend and a unjudgemental shoulder 2 lean on!

By sitting her down and just letting her know that you are there for her and are concerned for her WITHOUT trying to pressure her or push her into opening up will if nothing else give her a sense of being loved which may be the catalist to her either opening up or starting to move on from what ever it is that has got her so timid!

I think she needs to maybe see a professional but that is something that i wouldnt broch with her atm as she is obviously sensitive! But at the end of the day the only thing you can do is be there for her in whatever way she wants you to be.

sorry thats my 2 cents!

i hope that it works out and that she is ok.

[ammonite]

yea, did the poor bugger survive all those people trying to make her get "in touch" with her feminine side? *cough

ahahahahahahahaha