Feminism

[xxxVioletxxx]

What do you know about feminism?

Are you a feminist?

I think the term is unfortunately largely misunderstood these days. What are your thoughts?

[trina2004]

What do you know about feminism?

Are you a feminist?

I think the term is unfortunately largely misunderstood these days. What are your thoughts?

I'm a feminist. I think a lot of people confuse it with 'man-hating', which is really not part of it. I used to be one of those people who misunderstood feminism until I did a uni subject that was largely about differing perspectives on feminism.

[Bell Jar]

I believe that those who claim to be feminist, yet 'man-hate' are not real feminists. They're sexist, and are spreading the wrong image of feminism. Some people don't realise that feminism is essentially about gender equality.

[gold_femme]

i am most definitely a feminist.

i dont believe there are actual 'man haters' - its a myth created by the media/patriarchy to make feminists look bad.

ive known and studied with some of the most extreme feminists in australia, some that are seperatists who live there lives only with women - as much as possible purchase from women owned companies - use women tradies etc etc.. and none of them hated men at all....it was never about that.



so many people think we dont need feminism anymore, it makes me really sad. even looking at the salary disparity between australian men and women - you realise how far we still have to go.

[boozehag]

and that females are getting sexualised at the age of three..
and screw that i had a tonka truck when i was a kid and i turned out just fine... sort of...

[ammonite]

yeah i guess so. i don't agree with extremism or separatism though. (but i think the movement probably wouldn't have achieved anything without them)

my mum raised me feminist
she's a puzzle - politically conservative in most ways but feminist and pro-choice

she loves telling me stories from the 70s like when she sat in the men's bar of her small town pub and how my grandpa washed nappies in the 50s

[cilipadi]

so many people think we dont need feminism anymore, it makes me really sad. even looking at the salary disparity between australian men and women - you realise how far we still have to go.

Yeah, I realise this more and more as time goes on... getting out of uni (where a fairly convincing semblance of equality exists for undergrads) and into the real world made me realise how very important feminism still is... although I was a feminist already, I'm even more of one now. It's frustrating to see how much the working world still operates in men's favour, both in terms of pay and the way the workplace is structured. It's especially frustrating now that you come through school and uni and everything seems to be more or less a level playing field - in fact girls tend to do better - so you half-believe the things they feed you about the world being equal now... and then you go out to work and it's like hitting a wall. My girlfriend recently quit her job in protest, because she was working as a manager and they hired an inexperienced guy to work under her, on almost exactly the same pay, and couldn't give her any reasonable explanation for it.

[xxxVioletxxx]

I believe that those who claim to be feminist, yet 'man-hate' are not real feminists. They're sexist, and are spreading the wrong image of feminism. Some people don't realise that feminism is essentially about gender equality.

Agreed. So many people believe it to be about man hating, when all feminism has ever strived for, and has always been about is equality for all genders.

The most ill informed I've found are the heterosexual community, and sadly, it's mostly hetero women who mistakenly believe that feminism = man hating. I guess they are scared with their mistaken belief that if they label themselves feminists, that men won't desire them anymore?

How can we make them see that the world is far from equal? What literature have any of you read or can recommend?

P.S. I'm spewing I missed out on attending Germaine Greer's talk during Word Storm at Pee Wee's in Darwin. She is such a shit stirrer!

[Neptune]

Feminism doesn't really appeal to me.. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it was that old, grey and boring tweed skirted first year sociology lecturer and the essay I had to write about womens issues (for which I subsequently received my worst grade ever at university) that put me off.

I guess I haven't really experienced (or noticed) this women being disadvantaged thing (although I don't doubt it happens). It's just that most of the shit I hear come out of fanatical feminists' mouths (mostly left wing arts students) is akin to conspiracy theories. Maybe I'm just not interested in politics?

[cilipadi]

Feminism doesn't really appeal to me.. I'm not sure why. Perhaps it was that old, grey and boring tweed skirted first year sociology lecturer and the essay I had to write about womens issues (for which I subsequently received my worst grade ever at university) that put me off.

I guess I haven't really experienced (or noticed) this women being disadvantaged thing (although I don't doubt it happens). It's just that most of the shit I hear come out of fanatical feminists' mouths (mostly left wing arts students) is akin to conspiracy theories. Maybe I'm just not interested in politics?

I had similar feelings at times when I was at uni... sometimes it seemed like the feminists on campus were just a bunch of privileged whiners trying to jump on a ship that had long since sailed, so I would teeter between calling myself a feminist and not wanting to be associated with them. But I think over time I've come to realise that a lot of what they had to say was actually incredibly valid and relevant. And I've also come to think that it might be better to be a little extreme than to be apathetic in the face of inequality and discrimination.

[cilipadi]

And re-reading my post I realised it might look like I'm calling Neptune apathetic... which I'm not! I don't think there's anything wrong with not being interested in politics... I guess I just meant that these days I have more respect for the feminists I knew at uni :)

[bellsforher]

I have no idea what to call myself - but I guess i am pretty feminist - if that means I am concerned about how women are treated around the world, fighting for better conditions for women and girls in impoverished countries, for equal working rights, etc.

But I am a "Peoplist" if such a word ever existed....I want us all to be on the same level, which is highly unlikely to happen. No, i am not a "communist" either, we all have the right to individual expression and our own individual interpretation of freedom and happiness.

[Tatsuya]

im not sure if i'd class myself as a "feminist" but i've always worked in a male dominated industry, and part of me does it to show that chicks can do exactly the same jobs as a man... i'm a auto electrician and i specialize in car air conditioning, and i've just changed career to doing on site tech support, i'm the only girl in the company >.>

[bellsforher]

that's very cool Tatsuya, when i tell people I built my computer myself they look at me like I'm either lying, or a witch! Not that I could do it again, but always been very handy. Love woodwork myself and wish my chauvinist dad had taught me some more skills than trying to teach my uninterested brother.

As an artist, i've always been pissed that female artists in history aren't given more credit - there were actually quite a few but unfortunately they were often put into the background as being "hobbyists" just dabbling in their artform. Thankfully it's changing, but it's still easier to name 10 male artists than 10 female ones off the top of your hat.

[Neptune]

:cool: And re-reading my post I realised it might look like I'm calling Neptune apathetic... which I'm not! I don't think there's anything wrong with not being interested in politics... I guess I just meant that these days I have more respect for the feminists I knew at uni :)

Oh well, each to their own - good on you for taking a stand, someone has to! Politics just BORE me.

[cilipadi]

that's very cool Tatsuya, when i tell people I built my computer myself they look at me like I'm either lying, or a witch! Not that I could do it again, but always been very handy. Love woodwork myself and wish my chauvinist dad had taught me some more skills than trying to teach my uninterested brother.

As an artist, i've always been pissed that female artists in history aren't given more credit - there were actually quite a few but unfortunately they were often put into the background as being "hobbyists" just dabbling in their artform. Thankfully it's changing, but it's still easier to name 10 male artists than 10 female ones off the top of your hat.

Are you sure you're not a witch? Surely building a computer requires some form of occult powers :p

On the subject of female artists - Stravinsky's Lunch, by Drusilla Modjeska is a really interesting, meditative book about what it takes for a woman to succeed as an artist (and also a biography of two artists). Have you read it?

Another book of hers, The Orchard, is really good on the patterns of relationships between men and women (amongst other things).

:cool:

Oh well, each to their own - good on you for taking a stand, someone has to! Politics just BORE me.

Most things political bore me too, especially politicians ;) Social policy kind of interests me though.

[bellsforher]

Are you sure you're not a witch? Surely building a computer requires some form of occult powers :p

On the subject of female artists - Stravinsky's Lunch, by Drusilla Modjeska is a really interesting, meditative book about what it takes for a woman to succeed as an artist (and also a biography of two artists). Have you read it?

Another book of hers, The Orchard, is really good on the patterns of relationships between men and women (amongst other things).
.

have read Stravinsky's Lunch but not The Orchard.... very interesting stuff. I need to reread as it was ages ago....

[gold_femme]

im a feminist that knows a better world for women is a better world for all people - including men.

[pho3nixphir3]

i'm ignorant, so i'm not a feminist by my own definition of feminism.

and umm...i know we've got a long way to go still, but sometimes, in very little things, there are double standards. not in workplace equality, or any of that, just this thing irks me. girls are allowed to hysterically slap a guy around, and all he can do is put his arms up and plead innocence. i'm obviously against beating women, but i don't think women should go around slapping men thinking that they can get away with it because guys aren't allowed to hit back =S.

[Hessy]

yes, i'm a ''peoplist'' and i agree with phonenix. it's unfair to the guys. especially in rape cases, although that's slowly improving now.i think a bad image of feminism has been perpetuated, so that whenever i get into a room full of guys and girls the guys immediately feel unthreatened if i say ''no, i'm not a feminist''. it just brings up bad images in their heads.
and girls nowadays have lost the fight, they think we're so equal-we're not. we're so not. everyone should be equal in pay, in rewards.

[xxxVioletxxx]

im a feminist that knows a better world for women is a better world for all people - including men.

Wiser words have not been spoken.

[ammonite]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculism

[gold_femme]

Wiser words have not been spoken.


you always get it violet. thanks

x

[Baby]

I remember learning about feminism and the class discussing after that we would rather be "equalists." I want to see equality for everyone, not just women, or gays, or a certain race etc. If a man is mistreated because of gender I would have a problem with that as much as I would a woman.

[cilipadi]

I'm not sure that I really understand the 'equalist' point of view. While I too would like to see equality for everyone, men are not systematically disadvantaged on the basis of their gender. Women are. That is why there is a need for feminism.

[pho3nixphir3]

mm cilipadi, i disagree slightly. not with cold hard facts, but people tend to think the worst of men. like my teacher in high school was saying, if anyone were to accuse him, or another male teacher of anything inappropriate, no matter the outcome, it would be hard to clean the slate and keep people's minds free from the accusations. i know that many women have tried to file rape cases and failed, and it's a terrible, traumatising thing, but it also kinda works the other way too.

but i do agree that mainly women are disadvantaged, with pay, and rights, and so on.

[cilipadi]

I guess I have quite a different impression - that people are more likely to think poorly of women than of men, and to trivialise or dismiss women's concerns. While it may be true that with teachers and students people might be more likely to believe the student, I think that in general people are more likely to believe a man and think that a woman is lying or hysterically exaggerating. I think this thread is in some ways an example of this, as a few people have expressed concern for men who are in the position of having women lie about them, or who otherwise experience some form of disadvantage, when I think that realistically this happens seldom, while women suffering abuse or discrimination is quite common.

[Tatsuya]

I remember learning about feminism and the class discussing after that we would rather be "equalists." I want to see equality for everyone, not just women, or gays, or a certain race etc. If a man is mistreated because of gender I would have a problem with that as much as I would a woman.

I had a feminist Sose teacher at the private Anglican school i attended... she was like "burn the bra's" sort of feminist, so even when we were meant to be learning about geography or something she's always go into one of her rants...
I got detention for like 2 weeks from her...
she had started one of her rants and i raised my hand, and said to her "what the fuck are you talking about, women belong barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, now can we learn what we're meant to be learning?"... she didn't appreciate it... lol

granted i was being a smart ass, lol

[xxxVioletxxx]

I guess I have quite a different impression - that people are more likely to think poorly of women than of men, and to trivialise or dismiss women's concerns. While it may be true that with teachers and students people might be more likely to believe the student, I think that in general people are more likely to believe a man and think that a woman is lying or hysterically exaggerating. I think this thread is in some ways an example of this, as a few people have expressed concern for men who are in the position of having women lie about them, or who otherwise experience some form of disadvantage, when I think that realistically this happens seldom, while women suffering abuse or discrimination is quite common.

Spot on, cilipadi!

[djak]

Apparently early feminists never burned bras. I got into a discussion with someone about Germaine Greer a while back where the other person described her as a bra burner. I did some googling and could find no evidence to support their theory.
This article http://womenshistory.about.com/od/mythsofwomenshistory/a/bra_burning.htm
sort of explains the myth.

[pho3nixphir3]

yeah djak, i read about that all being a myth. well, partially false.

[xxxVioletxxx]

I think most people reference bra burning today because they saw it on The Simpsons.