Transphobia in Lesbian Circles

[datkindagal]

Does it still exist

Is it due to feminist writers like Germaine Greer & Mary Daly.

Why does it exist?

I am 44 so I've seen a lot however over the past 10 years I have noticed more and more that the lesbian and feminist community has been more inclusive in regards to transsexual woman.

[cilipadi]

I think maybe some old-school feminists think that trans women promote essentialist notions of gender and gender characteristics? Some of the things I've read seem to point to that, although I haven't read all that much about it.

I think some also believe that if you are brought up male, you have shared the social privileges of maleness and can't fully relinquish them.

I get the impression these sort of views would be less widely-held now than in the past, but I don't really know.

[trina2004]

I don't know a lot about it from an academic standpoint, but I have noticed that amongst gay people my age (21) it seems to be acceptable to be transphobic. There's a lot of sniggers and jokes made about a friend of mine who's trans.

I think its terrible, because these are the same people who leap up in arms if they feel discriminated against by straights.

[pho3nixphir3]

can't really say much. not transphobic, but i haven't been exposed to transsexual people really.

[datkindagal]

I think the male privilege argument is redundant for alot of m2f's as we were victimised socially as kids. Also it must be said we didn't want or ask for male privilege it was bestowed upon us at at a very early age. Male privilege does exist but for anyone who has transitioned its to the bottom of the food chain for you. We could say the same about heterosexual privilege. I am a woman and I feel privileged :) to be so.

[Happy to be me]

Trina i think i met your friend through other friends..
Lovley clothes and great smile too!

I really can't judge anyone and think its the same for all.
Just cause i/we look a certain way why does that make us a target?

I often wonder what it would be like to be blind for a day and see if we treated people differently/better cause we cant see them, so cant judge on looks??

Trans/pan/bi/les/gay in the end we are just people ..

Hugs xo

[trina2004]

Trina i think i met your friend through other friends..
Lovley clothes and great smile too!

I really can't judge anyone and think its the same for all.
Just cause i/we look a certain way why does that make us a target?

I often wonder what it would be like to be blind for a day and see if we treated people differently/better cause we cant see them, so cant judge on looks??

Trans/pan/bi/les/gay in the end we are just people ..

Hugs xo

You're smart:)

[gold_femme]

i agree that transphobia is not as common as it probably once was in lesbian circles...but i probably need to qualify are you referring to transsexual women that identify as lesbians?

also there has been a huge movement in the lesbian community to include trans men..havent quite see the same inclusion of trans women tho.

[trina2004]

i agree that transphobia is not as common as it probably once was in lesbian circles...but i probably need to qualify are you referring to transsexual women that identify as lesbians?

also there has been a huge movement in the lesbian community to include trans men..havent quite see the same inclusion of trans women tho.

Do trans men want to be included in the lesbian community? I don't know, but I would have thought not. Unless I have the wrong idea...
I don't really get the urge to exclude. Seems a lot of people still think the point of life is to get into a clique and leave out anyone that doesn't fit seamlessly with their stereotype. If a woman likes other women, she's les or bi. Her..status at birth doesn't really come into it with me.

[gold_femme]

Do trans men want to be included in the lesbian community? I don't know, but I would have thought not. Unless I have the wrong idea...



i can only speak for here in melbs, but yes, definitely - altho i would replace the word 'lesbian' with queer as thats a bit more inclusive. ill just say that where lesbians hang out is also where trannys or trans men or gender queer folk are also hanging...thats how the scene works now. ive seen the same thing in sydney and the states....its pretty much a phenomenon now to the point of fashion. (im not in anyway trying to sound insulting by saying this.)

but i havent seen a similar amount of trans women in these queer spaces, not yet anyway.

[gold_femme]

I don't really get the urge to exclude. Seems a lot of people still think the point of life is to get into a clique and leave out anyone that doesn't fit seamlessly with their stereotype. If a woman likes other women, she's les or bi. Her..status at birth doesn't really come into it with me.


i completely agree, exclusion and cliques are not my style..unfortunately mainstream society constantly does this to people and alot of folks are still very scared of what is different to them - and find comfort in the 'known' or what they see as similar to themselves.

[datkindagal]

really good point, I dont have many trans friends. I really like the energy of the trans/lesbian gender queer community. I'm not really a steak-knife girl so i wouldnt be caught picking up fluff from the Taci, rather I sort of identify with this community. I like men however I had had many bad relationships, go figure. I still identify as bi given my life experience. I'm just not sure where I fit anymore. :confused: I miss diversity in queer & straight circles.

i agree that transphobia is not as common as it probably once was in lesbian circles...but i probably need to qualify are you referring to transsexual women that identify as lesbians?

also there has been a huge movement in the lesbian community to include trans men..havent quite see the same inclusion of trans women tho.

[gold_femme]

really good point, I dont have many trans friends. I really like the energy of the trans/lesbian gender queer community. I'm not really a steak-knife girl so i wouldnt be caught picking up fluff from the Taci, rather I sort of identify with this community. I like men however I had had many bad relationships, go figure. I still identify as bi given my life experience. I'm just not sure where I fit anymore. :confused: I miss diversity in queer & straight circles.


your more than welcome in the community here in melbs. had some friends over last nite and inbetween loungeroom gaga and beyonce dancing we talked queer politics til 2am..half of the folks at my house didnt identify as any gender or sexuality, they want to be free to do what they want and sleep with whoever they want without fitting into a category or set of rules. i almost felt boring for being such a proud femme (well not really).

queer is the best...its the world where we all fit. *sniffs*

[trina2004]

i can only speak for here in melbs, but yes, definitely - altho i would replace the word 'lesbian' with queer as thats a bit more inclusive. ill just say that where lesbians hang out is also where trannys or trans men or gender queer folk are also hanging...thats how the scene works now. ive seen the same thing in sydney and the states....its pretty much a phenomenon now to the point of fashion. (im not in anyway trying to sound insulting by saying this.)

but i havent seen a similar amount of trans women in these queer spaces, not yet anyway.

Ah k yes I get the queer spaces thing. I can understand wanting to all hang together though, even if it is 'fashion'...as someone who went through 18 years of their life before they met another queer person, its so nice to go to a gay bar, or coffeeshop or even to a movie night and just be like..I make sense here. The alphabet soup community:)


i completely agree, exclusion and cliques are not my style..unfortunately mainstream society constantly does this to people and alot of folks are still very scared of what is different to them - and find comfort in the 'known' or what they see as similar to themselves.

Sad but true.

[cilipadi]

I think the male privilege argument is redundant for alot of m2f's as we were victimised socially as kids. Also it must be said we didn't want or ask for male privilege it was bestowed upon us at at a very early age. Male privilege does exist but for anyone who has transitioned its to the bottom of the food chain for you. We could say the same about heterosexual privilege. I am a woman and I feel privileged :) to be so.

Yeah, I agree. Hope it didn't seem like I was advocating the male privilege argument. Was just trying to recall the source of some feminist prejudice against trans women :)

[pho3nixphir3]

there's a transgender learnathon on tomorrow in sydney?

[marisol88]

i think in general people have trouble accepting things that are different. i walk around in the world and i can feel like this stupid hierarchy, straight people are the "normal" ones at the top, then gay people, then after that trans people and gender ambiguous, and anyone else who hasn't decided.
and the latter are the least accepted and least understood.

the thing that bothers me is that even though gay people experience prejudice and know how painful it is they still manage to practice it. people are always so eager to divide and categorise. i don't want to be all "we are all human, all the same" because that's too broad and we're all different, thats the point. people are just scared of what they don't know. for example i know with my experience with lesbians bisexuals arent as accepted, or are considered less, and not "part of the club".

all ive ever thought about transgenders and transvestites or even gender ambiguous is that id like to know more of them. it's a shame that they don't feel confident to be open about it, because the more common it is, the more people will get used it it and the less they will care or discriminate.

it is an amazingly brave thing to know exactly who you are and to make that known to others. that kind of person has more respect from me than someone who is born in the right body for them and never had to make any decisions in their life, and think that makes them better than someone a bit different.