Do you hate drug use as much as we do?

[aaron77]

What do you think about the use of drugs?


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[d_fiant]

I don't particularly hate drug users...I hate drugs and I hate the fact that people choose to take drugs because I have seen and experienced the devastation that drugs can bring to families, friendships and relationships.

I think someone should be there when the drug users decide to change their ways and reach out for help.

[Chancethegardener]

I don't understand why you hate drug users. Hating drugs is one thing, but hating drug users?

It is possible to use drugs ethically and responsibly. The aquisition of drugs is something difficult to practice ethically as many sources of illegal drugs are tied to organised crime. However, the weekend pot smoker who grows a few of his own plants every year, and hence is not reliant on drug dealers, could be deemed an ethical drug user.

[aaron77]

Hey Chance,

Thanks for the considered response. I agree with your ethical assessment, at least in the particular case you outline. Your giving an argument based on the consequences and on taking drugs and if there aren't any negative consequences for others than people should be left in peace. Of course I don't think your ethical user is the typical case, the scary thing is substance abuse is far too common.

But my my Facebook page is intentionally polemical. It is for non-users not users of drugs and perhaps it will lead to social ties that wouldn't have existed otherwise. I personally know, like and respect users of drugs (though they use only occassionally), but I think it would be better all round if they didn't. I have my reasons.

Since you gave me the eithical pot grower/user case to think about, I'll give you one: given all that that we know about smoking tobacco, if someone continues to smoke are they acting stupid, and does the stupidity stop at the skin (there is only stupid behaviour not stupid people) or does the stupidity go beyond behaviour into the pychological realms of personality, character, etc?

I'll give one more concrete example if someone smokes and makes sure it doesn't directly harm others (i.e. passive smoke) but this makes them more likely to get cancer etc, what is your thinking about this person if they have kids and/or a partner? They say 'stop smoking we want you to live a long time, we like having you around' and they say 'I can't' or 'I don't want to'?

*update* I just realised that there was no need to use smoking tobacco as an example when the use of pot would have worked as well (pot also leads to increased risk of lung cancer due to the incredibly high tar content in the smoke, which means more cancer causing chemicals in the tar).

[ecclipse83]

I personally do not 'Hate' Drug Users!

I do not welcome the use of drugs in my home, i do not take drugs, i have dated people whom in moderation take altering substances, it is the users own choice if they wish to take such things, the idea that you 'Hate' them is ridiculous to me i accept each individual for who they are not what they do....

We are part of a community that fights for acceptance and it saddens me to see people discriminating against others!

[aaron77]

I'm using 'hate' the way we all say 'I love coffee, but I hate tea'. I do hate them for what they do. If they didn't do it I wouldn't hate them. The mind is a complex thing, I can hate them for what they do yet like them for other things they do, or just like them for being themselves (or hate them for being themselves).

Do I 'accept an individual for who they are not what they do' as you suggest? Do I 'hate the sin, but not the sinner'? I can't do any such crazy double-think or anything like it, because how can you divide thought, desire, intention, decision and deed?

[aaron77]

We are part of a community that fights for acceptance and it saddens me to see people discriminating against others!

Another thing.

I have to live in the world and a gay sub-culture where I see people overdosing regularly. Also saddening is to see almost everyone dulling their brains with over consumption of drugs - (this includes people I care about), especially young guys who don't have the life experience to moderate their hedonism and escapism (they are invincible afterall).

I often here that line about acceptance, but if I have to live with widespread drug use in the gay community, why can't YOU live with some people like me not liking it?

[ecclipse83]

the idea that you 'Hate' them is ridiculous to me i accept each individual for who they are not what they do....

I stated the idea is ridiculous to me, i never said, i disrespected nor did not accept your opinion

[aaron77]

I stated the idea is ridiculous to me, i never said, i disrespected nor did not accept your opinion


Right, I see, you are 'saddened' by my attitudes, gotcha.

[ecclipse83]

Right, I see, you are 'saddened' by my attitudes, gotcha.

Not saddened by any means, i like a GOOD active discussion ;)

[Chancethegardener]

Hi Aaron,

Responding to your earlier post and the two examples you gave... I haven't checked back here in a while, hence the delay.

The point about stupidity stopping at skin or going deeper is an interesting one. To which do drug use and addiction belong, the physical or mental? While not wanting to get into any issues of dualism, I'm sure you would agree that the initial step along the road to addiction would belong to the mental realm. One must first decide to smoke a ciggie or doobie before the physical processes of addiction are set in motion. In this instance I can understand your myspace page (although, not having looked at it) discouraging the using of substances in the first place; addiction will not be given the chance to take hold. However, once one becomes addicted does the burden of personal responsibility and decision making still apply? To some extent yes, but in comparison to the biological processes of being addicted to something, personal choice has little to do with continuing use. For ciggies this is especially true, but the jury is still out on pot with regards to its levels of addictiveness. If addiction in the form of continued use has little to do with personal choice then is it ethical to hate the user?

The point about considering the interests others might have in your life being long because they enjoy your company is a bit iffy. Smoking is a high risk behaviour. But so too is driving, speeding, working on a building site, sky diving or sun bathing. Would you ask the same of the person engaging in any of these other activities to stop doing them because it puts them at increased risk of death? Is it that smoking is stigmatised and the other behaviours not that you feel comfortable in asking the question and expect them to capitulate? While we all have an interest in staying alive, others have interests in us continuing to live too. These reasons belong to our families, friends and lovers. But does the enjoyment or happiness one might get out of drug use outweigh the frought emotions others will surely experience if you were to die as a result of that drug use? I'd say probably not on the face of the statement. However, taking into account that each of us likely participate in at-risk behaviours every day of our lives - knowingly or unknowingly - singling drug use out because it might take a loved one away from you seems a bit like cherry picking to me. After all, we are all hedonists at heart!

[aaron77]

"We are all hedonists" at heart. Some people are, some people aren't. Some people sacrifice long term rewards for short, some people don't.


In regard to your comments about cherry picking, some people have trouble thinking probabilistically about risks and, and as for weighing benefits, as I mentioned above, some people are unable to take pleasure from activities that don't involve shortcuts. The easiest thing in the world is the DIRECTLY induce positive experience by changing your brain neurotransmitters. It's cheating.

[Christian Taylor]

i don't have a problem with drug use at all.
i wish everyone would just stop trying to police what others do with their bodies.

[Chancethegardener]

I meant hedonism in the ethical sense; that the satisfaction of desires is the highest good and ultimate aim of human life. Disires might be those of the flesh or those of a spiritual nature. Some achieve these through meditation and yoghurt fancying, others light a J or pop a pill on occasion. Regardless of how you satisfy your personal desires, and this doesn't directly impact negatively on others, I don't see a problem.

I don't think popping a pill to achieve a positive experience is cheating by any means. If coffee improves an individuals concentration, can a student who indulges in a few lattes before an exam be considered a cheater?

[duplicitous]

I quite often find that drug users turn out to be better and more capable people after experiencing drug use as a lifestyle. Sometimes the period where they use drugs is not always fun but in the end you have to accept people for the whole package, not just a portion.

I have made the mistake of writing someone off for being a drug user and have regretted it, still do actually.

[MomijiTMO]

I'm offering a view that isn't ever thought of by most people.

I've done all the undergraduate organic chemistry at UQ and all I can say is that there is little chance that the drug you are taking is enantiomerically pure assuming that you are taking the drug you are buying. Of course no one even bothers with fillers or has figured out if the drug needs to be more lipophillic for optimum diffusion. No one even figured out how the drug is filtered by the body and how it would be removed.

You play a game with drugs. You just have to think about how complex the path for a new drug is to be passed by the governing bodies.

[individualstill]

I don't particularly hate drug users...I hate drugs and I hate the fact that people choose to take drugs because I have seen and experienced the devastation that drugs can bring to families, friendships and relationships.

I think someone should be there when the drug users decide to change their ways and reach out for help.


I totally agree and also have seen the devastation drugs can cause. Of course there are different levels of drug use but the word recreational for drug use is way too simplistic. Someone who is doing an E a month and has been lucky enough not to get a bad batch and end up in hospital and still can work and be happy or whatever or people who smoke dope now and then, thats their business. People who are doing harder drugs all the time and end up selling all their stuff and borrowing money off of everyone around them and maxing out credit cards, getting into debt they cant get out of, stealing, selling their bodies unsafely for a hit etc. Thats when maybe we can say, hey drugs really are bad mmmkay! Each to their own though but if you are one of the latter then Im not interested in that negativity. :(

[DarlingSweety]

Hello darlings, drugs users annoy me sweetys I went to buy some flu medications because I have sniffles and they said they have some but it isnt that good because the good stuff was removed to stop drug shoppers after (excuse spelling) psuedoephydryn???) I said honey I dont want a cold and she said theres not much I can do, so they annoy me darlings and what about cash converters where pple put their things in for money loans, these businesses thrive on these druggies darlings, if you must use drugs grab some seeds and smoke dope at least youll be too paranoid or tired to break into pples homes xxxxx love you all

[weathervain]

I won't have anything to do with anyone who touches ice, that shit is nasty and so are the psychological bi-products.

I'm even wary of relationships with people who have done it previously, been bitten by that mongrel dog once and never putting up with it again.

[individualstill]

yep, there are drugs and then there are drugs, god knows what crap they will come up with next to hook people for a profit.

[waterrat]

I used to professionally hate drug users, but I think my dislike heads more toward the manufacturers of the drug and the sellers rather than the sorry souls that depend on them. The people who make it and sell it don't care what happens to the user, and they often don't care what they cut the stuff with.

Given that, I will never tolerate ice heads. Ppl who continue to use this will see their life degrade to a point below hopeless given what it does to the brain (damages the part that makes dopamine, which is what is released when the drug is taken) so given users are destroying the very part of the brain they want to keep giving them the rush, I am disturbed at their prospects for the future, a lot of psychosis and mental health treatment unfortuately.

Of course having said this, I take dexamphetamine every day, mind you I've never felt remotely 'up' because of it. I don't see what the fuss is all about really ;)

[bentevents]

I live in Lismore which is 30kms from Nimbin so you can imagine the amount of drug use there is in this area (particually pot). Myself I do not use drugs but I have known a lot that do either having a bong, joint or E (at a Tropical Fruits Party). As mentioned I don't hate the person who takes them (with the exception of my ex who was a massive pot-head). What I do hate is when this habit starts to affect others around them, things like massive mood swings and stealing to pay for their habit.

I had a flatmate that was a secretive injecting user (I am not sure what substance he injected). I had my possesions stolen only to find out he had hocked the items and then made it look like someone had broken in (I found this only after I found him on the toilet dead of an overdose - I was away at a wedding at the time and discovered him 2 days after his overdose).

If the person is using and there is not negative repercussions that is fine. I have often said that I would prefer to get in a car with someone who smoked dope than someone who has had a lot to drink. The dope smoker thinks he is going fast when in actual fact he is going slow, where it is the reverse for someone who has had a lot to drink.

[Asherbella]

Everything you put into your body is a drug.
Food has additives, preservatives, chemicals.
You chew gum your digesting the drug beta-hydroxy gelatine.
You drink diet coke your digesting the drug phenanyline.
You eat Vegemite you're digesting drug preservative 202.
You eat dried fruit you're digesting the drug sulphric dioxide.

[Asherbella]

The Facebook group link at the top of this page says that drug use in the gay community is *rampant*. My question is this: which clique do you hang out in? Drug users are drug users - regardless of sexuality. Drugs are part of rave club culture, not gay culture.

[naughtylion]

I don't particularly hate drug users...I hate drugs and I hate the fact that people choose to take drugs because I have seen and experienced the devastation that drugs can bring to families, friendships and relationships.

Drugs don't bring devastation to friends families and relationships. People do. I'm stickin up for the poor little substances that aren't here to defend themselves today. So often they are used as a scapegoat for all the irresponsible people that either don't know how to do drugs responsibly, or that use them for the wrong reasons, or to excess. These are the people that bring the devastation. They are people that put the drug(s) first, before all the important stuff. This isn't the drugs fault. The drugs don't jump into people's bodies. People make a choice to take them.

Personally, drugs always take a backseat in my life when it comes to family, friendships and relationships. Although I have consumed copious amounts of them, and sometimes for extremely long periods of time, it is because I choose to, and want to. I hold and have always held full time executive employment, and drugs have not affected my life in any negative way, because I won't let them. They have made my life better in certain circumstances, because they have offered me something different. Something that cannot be experienced in sobriety. And no, I'm not talking about being happy, or needing them to have a good time, or any of that crap people uneducated on the subject shoot back with. I'm talking about purely being high. It's a sensation. Sensation that I like. Sensation that I choose to experience sometimes. Sensation that can't be had sober. Sensation that I control of.

I remember once having a conversation with one of my colleagues about them, and they were a little shocked. I asked her if she would have known otherwise, she said no. So then, why is it anyone's business. If it doesn't effect my life, work, family, friends, relationships, people i care about, people i DON'T care about, then what's the harm, and whose business is it.

It's not really fair that people like Aaron come along and think it's their duty to police what others should do with their bodies, all under the guise of trying ever so (obviously) desperately to relate the situation back to them, thereby giving themselves claim to stand on their soap boxes and reprimand.

It's not the drugs, its the people.
Not all users let the drugs control them.
I for one am sick of being lumped into this category.

[Asherbella]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJIjWlLa8MU