Is online media powerful enough : Has print media any purpose?

[gavanbright]

fuck it

[kylierose]

well, all i can say is that i read the breaking news about anthony callea's gayness on THIS SITE first, and i thought at the time ... "i wonder if n-paper will pick up on this? at least i can say i saw it here first. print media is so slow and out-moded..."

sure enough, they did! and i felt compelled to ignore the article and head straight for the scene photos section. afterall, that's all i use the paper for. except, of course, when i need to clean my windows.

nice plug gavan ~ and good luck with the club.

same same has had a slow reception in brisbane so far (by my estimations) but i'm sure this will skyrocket at some stage. stodgy, old, stale brisbane media "moguls" are probably already feeling the pinch... and therein lies the problem. catch up or be overtaken. it's the way of the web2.0.

[libby]

i cant remember the last time i picked up street press... maybe i would if i caught a bus or train to work??? online forums (particularly when you are regularly invovled with a particular site) very much act like word of mouth referrals for me

[Junior]

I'm coming at this topic based on my 7 years of experience running SS's sister site inthemix.com.au. I have to say this feels like deja vu. The proof is ultimately in the pudding as to whether online can drive responses. The best ever response I've seen was when we held one of our first parties for inthemix at home nightclub in Sydney and we offered free entry if you RSVP'ed online. We had over 4,000 people show up and massive queues hundreds of metres back. All from purely online communication.

SS is not at that point yet. But you can be sure that the power of online communities is very real, I really don't see how it can be disputed.

I personally believe that there is room for street press and online to co-exist. Each has its role to play and as we have seen with ITM and other street press we can all operate in a professional and complementary way. In fact inthemix has become a strong sources of ad revenue for street press like 3D World.

[Junior]

The pudding...

http://www.inthemix.com.au/ice/photos/albums/050430-smirnofficeitm-spinalfaun/aaa.sized.jpg

[Kodi]

I remember Street Press. They're the piles of unread ex trees I see still bound and being recycled at the end of each week while their 'audit' figures seem to claim that 122 people read each issue cover to cover.

Um, no. Its the busy little electrons of the internet and the wonders of word of mouth that work for me.

[hazyinseptember]

Hhahaah.. as a writer for the gay street press ( and quite possibly the exact publication that gavin has stated in this forum ) i can certainly say that street press is certainly not dead.. gay OR straight!

but i can see why the above statement might have been made.. no matter how misleading it is...

any gay press i can think of survives off its marketing dollar$.. it payes the cost of the printing and even more it pays your wage if you happen to be employed in the paper.

If your selling ads to make your wage for the next week of course your gonna try everything you can to sell.. people do it with cars, whitegoods, computers and anything you can think of..

Street press is not dead, anyone who says so is wrong, but to discredit the power of sites like this is a HUGE misnomer that, if not checked, will certainly bite them in the ass...

[alison87]

I gave up reading the music street press when they just turned into press release upon press release, and they hardly ever mentioned any of the parties i wanted to go to! inthemix totally trashes the street press for party info.

I still enjoy picking up the gay street press from time to time, but now i've found a website like samesame where i can keep up with general gay interest news and local stuff too, street press is just too much effort. It's too hard to get copies. I would probably read the gay street press if it was as available as mX, but since it's not it's just too much effort for something i can now get online anyway.

[hazyinseptember]

you also have to remember that there are a HELL of a lot of poofs and dykes out there without computers.. or no interest in online information..

this will certainly change over time but to write them off ....

[kylierose]

^^ yeah, i think that's a fair point

a friend reminded me of that the last time we did a promo run. there's a huge chunk of people who don't have computers and don't sit at the internet all day like me (i'm a web developer by day). but we didn't advertise in the papers due to cost (and low ROI IMHO) and we wanted more of a street level form of promotion. but i'll give it a go next time and see whether it works or not. it's a budget decision in the end.

the point gavan made about content is also a fair one too. at least now both papers are well designed. for a while qnews was seriously lacking in any design or content direction. not that it matters much for street level, except that their target market was pitched in one direction and their layout and content didn't support that well.

it's foolish to think one can replace the other; anymore than the internet has replaced libraries. i used to think that the web was the only way to go, but i've reconsidered that POV now. one can definitely support the other and a good marketing strategy will encompass both.

don't believe the hype. papers and websites both want your money. how else can they offer prizes and a captive market to your startup? in the end, it's your own content that will swing consumers votes your way. and if you're selling a dance floor to people then you'd better make it swing!
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[alison87]

I'm not so sure. See http://www.internetworldstats.com/pacific.htm#au -
"14,729,209 users as of Nov/06, 70.2% penetration, per Nielsen//NR". That's a LOT of Australians with internet access, and my guess is in the cities it'd be even higher. The people without internet are a rapidly shrinking minority. I have my doubts that the gay minority within that minority just happen to live next door to gay venues where they can pick up street press easier than checking out the news on a mate's PC.

I don't think paper media is dead yet - it still has portability over internet media - but it's definitely dying imho.

[Junior]

There are always going to be some people who don't migrate online but realistically if I'm looking to sell a ticket to a dance party my target audience is likely to be younger people who almost always have access to the web. The only remaining people not online would tend to be the elderly and those in regional areas (hardly lining up for tickets to clubs...) and they probably don't want to read gay street press either.

[Christian Taylor]

interesting debate. it's hard for me not to be biased - but when it comes to information sharing, especially news, online just has it over print purely because it's instantaneous. stories can be edited in real time, there's interaction... it's just more alive.

of course, print is good for when you're sitting on the bus or having a coffee, so it can't be written off altogether, but i do think in some ways the gay print press in particular will have to change their focus.

[hazyinseptember]

I'm not so sure. See http://www.internetworldstats.com/pacific.htm#au -
"14,729,209 users as of Nov/06, 70.2% penetration, per Nielsen//NR". That's a LOT of Australians with internet access, and my guess is in the cities it'd be even higher. The people without internet are a rapidly shrinking minority.

"Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that." - homer simpson

the key word here is Internet ACCESS.. this does not mean you have access.. but CAN access..

there are plenty of ways to access the internet, mobile phone, cafe, work computer ( if they have access ) .. and how many of these would you possibly check sites like same same on???

im pretty damn sure that im not going to be checking my gaydar profile at work anytime soon..

print is not going to die anytime soon.. please consider this before we all start burning books...

[jasn]

You're going to get a biased result to that poll.

On the subject of the Anthony "news", I agree that paper press probably wont publish a series of drooling "he is gay!" speculative articles on their front page. It would probably be buried in the entertainment/pop section. Now that he is out and talking they'll probably do something more in-depth.

[hazyinseptember]

ooooo.. ill have to check the new issue and see.. i forgot to grab one on the weekend ( had other things on my mind ;)

Russle Flemming used to do the covers + photography for qnews ( http://www.russellflemingphotography.com/ (http://www.russellflemingphotography.com/) ).. dont think he does it anymore so they might be training someone else up..

talking about design ive always found that samesames a little boring to look at.. very usable tho so it has its balances, but ITM looks great and uses the same content management system.

[bexter]

Hi Gavan,
Before I respond to your question, may I ask what your qualifications are, to qualify you as a Communication Designer? I'd like to see where you are coming from.
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[bexter]

>I throw down the gauntlet to the users of this site, do you think the power of direct communication between the authors and the readers on the internet, through sites such samesame have any sway over your decision to make a change, buy a product, change your belief or in the case of my clients, get people through the door and onto a dance floor for a new club night experience? <

Well-designed communication in any media (and I don't mean well-styled or fashionable, I mean well-designed for a target audience, using good geometry, font readability etc as well as styling) attracts that audience to the product or service. The content must be worthwhile once the audience has arived. Shoddily-designed media will give the product or service a poor rating as far as quality goes, and not allow that product/service the opportunity to be judged.

If you would like a quantifiable answer to this question now and for use in simialr arguments in the future, why don't you conduct some proper design research: a survey, for example, and analyse the data you receive? If there is one thing the internet is GREAT for, it's surveys!

>Recently a client told me how a local media company cited claims that websites such as samesame.com.au has no relevance to the local queer community<

Well that seems to be a silly and un-proven statement from this client. Where is the research to back this up? Why wouldn't you just disregard this and move on?

>The Brisbane based company, went further to pull out the old publishing trick of 'we can do all your advertisements in-house' if you sign up for larger and more frequent placements. There is always a catch!! But sadly what message is communicated if the in-house designer of the communication is removed from the client and has no direct relationship or in-depth knowledge based on sound research about the product and its market. <

An in-house designer can only be this ill-informed if not given this information by the client. A good designer can find a solution that meets a brief regardless of the situation, or they will find a way to alter the situation to meet the brief

Print media is definitely viable, remember it is an alternative medium to internet-based media or word-of-mouth or other media. I certainly agree that some local gay publications have little to offer in the way of content, design, ethics or even the ability to spell or punctuate correctly.

There are many messages that are not appropriate for internet-based media. The internet is not as people-powered as many would have us believe: much of what is available is as heavily controlled as the print media. I think all forms of gay media have much work to do to improve, and I will enjoy watching and reading!

(I am not in any way affiliated with any gay media but am a Art Director with 10 years' print experience, currently studying a masters' degree and lecturing in design)

[kylierose]

Getting back to the guts of this topic.......... :D

On Sat we ran a club that was promoted largely with fliers, web ads and a little help from the street press. One hour after it opened, we had a queue stretching out the door and a room full of (mostly) satisfied punters.

We took a risk in choosing to advertise this way, but we also had a strong communication strategy to begin with and targeted our market well. I think it would have been riskier as a start up to run ads in the papers, but with more time and more support we can start to do that because the little snippets of press we received also had some reach (thanks hazy). I would also add that it helps to work with a graphic designer with over 17 years experience and that I'm a web developer with over 10 years experience. Together, we created quite a strong brand perception (and it was deliberately styled to be 'low brow' which suited the name and format).

So, basically, it is possible to promote and run successful events without placing big budget ads in street press. However, it is also important to cover all the bases and as I said before, a well thought out communication strategy will encompass both.

On a side note, next time we run the club, I'd like to see Gavan Bright make an appearance. It's cool that you want me to go along to your venture, but maybe you'd also like to support mine?? Rainbow Planet is not the only Gay in the Village.
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[kylierose]

www.cut-taste.com

[hazyinseptember]

So, basically, it is possible to promote and run successful events without placing big budget ads in street press. However, it is also important to cover all the bases and as I said before, a well thought out communication strategy will encompass both.
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Guerilla marketing is well known for working amongst a small and specialised target audiance,youll find that almost all modern bands use it to promote their gigs..

Its also cheaper.. although money vs time sometimes outweights the benefits..

[kylierose]

^^ please explain?

[hazyinseptember]

its when you take advertising matters into your own hands and run thru other avenues of advertising rarther than the traditional ways.

You guys had heaps of flyers around the place, lots of word of mouth and posts on sites like this.

Traditional ways of advertising ( ie, television, print, radio ) are expensive but usually less time consuming because your not directly responsible for the running around. But usually more expensive ways of advertising.

If you know your core market and how to contact them, Gurillea marketing works great...

[kylierose]

B. Was this the worst image I have ever seen of Ant, he looks like a crystal user, or coming down from a big red faced drinking session... Poor love the mag didn't even photoshop him or colour correct the image

um, i think that image is the qnews cover boy and not callea
poor love, you'd think the mag could've photoshopped him too... but they didn't
so his drinking binge and crystal habit is displayed in all it's glory

god bless street media! hooray!!!

[hazyinseptember]

um, i think that image is the qnews cover boy and not callea
poor love, you'd think the mag could've photoshopped him too... but they didn't
so his drinking binge and crystal habit is displayed in all it's glory

god bless street media! hooray!!!

I dunno ..

there is no cover boy profile in the mag.. which usually happens if its not someone famous..

its a terrible, terrible pic of him if it is callea..

ill have to ask the guys at q..

[kylierose]

page 17
name: ben
age: 25
lives: coorparoo
etc: etc

and there's that damn blue in the background again!
i think they normally have a cover boy. sometimes they do a search for a cover boy.

it's the same guy, i'm pretty certain of it.

[heyisthis4real]

Gavin, if you want closure on any of your relationships whether they be business or pleasure - start with your legs.

[notso]

On another social website Facebook my best friend Steven Short has started a thread on my superwall and I thought how funny, maybe we could all think of movie titles about the topic between your legs. Considering the last persons Heyisthis4real's 'one and only post' on this site, was to say something childish about me not keeping my legs together during business and personal relationships.

Steven Short wrote

*** Between your legs****
Everybody.. lets get this started and see what creative movie titles we can come up with.. here's the rules.. think up a movie title(ANY movie title), and add "Between Your Legs" to the movie title..ill get it goin...continue to forward this!!!

Cindy :- Rush Hour Between Your Legs

Patrick :- Gone with the wind Between your legs

Carl :- Finding Nemo Between your legs

Damian:- Mad MAx Between your legs

David:- Armageddon Between your legs

Andre: - 300 Between your legs

Trace: - Dirty Dancing Between your legs...

Amy: Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure Between Your Legs

Jordy: Midnight Express Between your legs

Joshua: Training Day Between your legs

Callie: Cruel Intentions Between your Legs

Tom: Final Fantasy Between your legs

Garrett: The Abyss Between your legs

Scotty: Groundhog Day Between Your Legs

Flash: Blow between your legs

Brett : 48 Hours Between Your Legs

Belinda: The Fly between your legs

Belinda: The Lost Boys between your legs

Elle : Gladiator between your legs!

Dan: I Know What You Did Last Summer between your legs!

Lisa: The Incredible Hulk Between your legs

Jason Gasoline: Easy Rider between your legs.

Andrea: I wish Beowulf was between my legs
joel:debbie does dallas between your legs
Ella: Labyrinth between your legs.

The whole nine yards between your legs
Scott Wolfe: One Flew over the cuckoos nest between your Legs

marian : almost famous between your legs.
- home alone between your legs

adele: The Fast and The Furious between your legs

jordan: Everything is Illuminated betwen your legs

Jess The Shining between your legs

Jess Days Of Thunder between your legs

Jess Gorillas In The Mist between your legs

Jess Jurassic Park between your legs

Jess Beyond The Thunderdome between your legs

Jess Flowers In the Attic between your legs

Woody: TOUCHING THE VOID between your legs - SNAP!

LUKE: GONE WITH THE WIND BETWEEN YOUR LEGS!

Tam: Beetlejuice between your legs

Gavan: Saturday Night Fever between your legs

[robbie]

you also have to remember that there are a HELL of a lot of poofs and dykes out there without computers.. or no interest in online information..

this will certainly change over time but to write them off ....

HELL of a lot? - doubtful..
Small pockets of poor suburbia without internet access - more likely.

I think Online has plenty of advantages over print but especially in the ability to provide TIMELY news and information. There's no point in reading a story 7 days after the event if you've already seen/read/heard the story on various media platforms. In today's age, businesses need that instanenous connection avenue with communities.