Things gay people can't understand about the gay community/culture

[jamieB]

Time to kick a bit of life into these forums. This should start it off (I hope!)

PLEASE register and speak up guys (and get your friends to spread the word too) - the more people who post, the better this site will become (and i think its a GREAT site). If inthemix can get 500,000 posts on the sydney forums alone, so can we!

A lot of people I speak to don't understand why gay people do certain things. They are gay too, but just can't understand it. I thought people who perhaps do these things (or understand why people do it) could explain.

I'll start the ball rolling.

I cannot understand why guys who are quite overweight, often midle aged, and generally very unattractive, take their tops off at gay clubs and dance parties.

Now I can understand many others do it at these events, but why do you take your top off if you have a horrible body? It doesn't impress anybody! You would be more attractive if you left it on.
Do the guys do it because they think it impresses people? Or are they so out of it they don't realise it's doing more harm than good?
You dont have to admit you do it, just explain why people do! please!



Discuss.........

[Tim D]

Ha, now you're asking for trouble! My two cents worth is that maybe the "overweight, often middle agaed, and generally very unattractived" are not out to impress but to experience the joy, fun and freedom that comes with taking your shirt off and dancing uninhibited.

I have to admit that there's something very primitive about being in the middle of the RHI at Mardi Gras with thousands of shirtless sweaty guys all shuffling along to tribal beats. Straight men play sport and sweat to bond, gay guys take their shirts off and dance to bond.

[Zakalwe]

I think its probably because by the time you've reached a certain age you're comfortable enough in your own skin to not care what others think and just enjoy yourself.

[infinity]

I'm with Jamie on this one. I spend too much on my clothes to tuck them into my jeans and look like a clone of everyone else. What the hell ever happened to originality?

[Mr Azza]

I spend too much on my clothes ROFL :p

[Christian Taylor]

Yes, I wasn't aware that we all had to pass some invisible standard and be plastic, gym buffed clones in order to dance topless. It's not about *looking good*, it's about *feeling good*. I love the mix of different bodies out on the scene - there's much more to look at, and hey - you might not be attracted to all of them, but thank god we're not all identical. Boring!

[Aries Fairy]

thank god we're not all identical. Boring!

Reminds me of the Groove Armada track - "If everybody looked the same, we'd get tired of looking at each other..."

[Gelfling]

Hmmm interesting thread undoubtably one that will ruffle feathers but that seems to be one of its points. Following on from the physical expression question.

I personally don't understand limp wrists, copious amounts of glitter that takes weeks to get off & bizzare obessions with singers who's vocal talents really arn't all that great.

Anyone care to shed some light.

& no for the record i do not believe every man should be some burly bloke in king gees & swiging beer @ every opportunity. I just don't understand the whole over the top femmine aspect many (mostly younger) ppl portray.

[Christian Taylor]

i may be wrong, but i always thought the camp, over the top feminity thing was a form of irony? it' s like... casting off the shackles of all that macho, masculine bravado crap.

then of course there are some people out there who are just as camp as tits and there's nothing they can do to hide it.

i remember a friend of mine who used to live with this guy in the inner west who would always ride around town on a pink pushbike with a white cane basket on the front and rainbow streamers on the handlebars.

now i don't care what anyone says, THAT'S bravery.

[subwayray]

I don't try to understand why people do what they do .... Being overweight with your shirt off or being as camp as can be .... I don't really care ..... You're not hurting me in any way, and if that's what you've got to do in order to be happy and enjoy yourself, then go right ahead .....

[Brett Hayhoe]

This thread is not so much [to me] about body image, or the ability to express ones campness, as is it about the Gay community's [seeming] obsession with self-destruction. Instead of publicly criticising our fellow fags and dykes, it would be lovely to see [one day I hope] a thread that celebrates the diversity of the GLBTi community in all its glory.

Young, old, slim, not-so-slim, butch [note I did not use the word straight acting ... I abhore that phrase as I do NOT believ anyone should ACT in any particular way except who they are], feminine, hairy, hairless, blonde, brunette, redhead, well-endoured, not-so-well-endoured, short, tall .... and the list goes on.

We, as a community, continue to strive for acceptance and tolerance from the broader community, when we constantly deprive our own of the same right. Perhaps if we look the other way when we see something we don't like [as long as it is legal] then these things that upset us so much may not be such an issue :)

Microsoft in fact have a product which says it all - MYOB [hopefully you know what the acronym stands for].

Viva la Difference!

[genkij]

I'm 35, Not Thin & always wear My shirt !!

I don't understand it & will NEVER DO IT !!
- No matter what state I am in !

[genkij]

I don't understand WHY - In Australia - The gay scene has such a limited scope of Music .... in San Fran I have been to Gay RnB nights - Tokyo Tech / House nights - DTPM Quality House ..... There is soooo much fantastic music in the world - Don't get me wrong ... There are changes happening slowly here BUT we need to get out of listening to sub-standard nasty remixes of pop - ALL THE TIME !! - have a weekend out at a few places in Sydney & you are guaranteed to hear the same stuff ... PPAALLEASE .. It is seriously like Chinese water torture !! ..... Peace OUT !!

[hazyinseptember]

for a culture that demands acceptance from others, gay and lesbians are increbibly narrow minded when it comes to accepting...

did i mention self destructive as well? think about our embracing of drug culture, persuit of youth and beauty, love for unsafe sex, the general bitchyness and self depreciation that being a gay male is all about...

[genkij]

Oh IIIII KNOWWWWWWWWWW !!!!!!!

[jimmyjames]

agreed.

probably the key reason i have avoided the gay scene for my entire life thus far. the music is just generally too crap.

but don't forget we have some incredible queer djs - taylor, allkins, sveta, rollins, murphy, the list goes on...

[genkij]

Agreed - They just need to be come the rule rather then the exception !!

[ariadne]

I don't understand why people pretend to enjoy seeing drag queens who aren't funny, whose 'dances' are just choreographed walking, and who don't even bother to try to sing (and in some cases can't even mime).

I guess I was spoiled in London... where you generally get good, original material and miming is not considered an option, in my experience. Seriously, the only decent drag acts I have seen in Australia are the Vic Drag Kings - an excellent night out.

[genkij]

Oh Palease tradge Drag is so funny .... let's face it ...

Most of us would be very good at it with NO effort !!

Purist !!

Irony isn't a sin you know !!!

[meezon04]

hahaha, yes I agree, it's gross, but alcohol can make peole do crazy things - it is the most popular drug. And if the alcohol makes them feel sexy, they'll think they look sexy and off comes the shirt! I wonder if management ever goes up to those people and asks them to either put the shirt back on, or leave, because they are driving away the customers? Personally, I think pride events, yes go for it, youth-based nightclubs - noooo thanks.
Glitter on the other hand looks HOT under the fluro dance lights, and those who have the guts to do drag, for whatever reason (fun; cos they like dressing up; look better as a chick/guy etc) I think are awesome. Only thing is a lot of drag queens/kings do the whole stereotyped lip-synching to tragic pop, when drag really needs to be original to be thoroughly enjoyed (or at least keep my attention from the bar for more than 30 seconds).

[remix_addict]

Seeing "quite overweight, often middle aged, and generally very unattractive" guys with their shirts off in clubs is the only time I feel good about myself. Don' take that away from me. :rolleyes:

[shaker81]

Such a shame we impose our fears of body image onto others...
Why not dance with your shirt off? Why not support others in doing so too?
You may be the one standing in the corner hating me for doing so, but I love nothing more than being up on the podium with MY SHIRT OFF and then convincing others to do the same (or just start taking it off and keep going til their shirt is swingin from the back of MY jeans).
Now there's no pre determined requirements for taking your shirt off - from a hot 6 pack ab muscle god to a chubby middle aged guy - WHO CARES?
The point is to enjoy your freedom up there and let loose. We all have our own stresses in our every day lives and go out, presumably, to have fun. So why bow to the social stereotypes of what is allowed and what is acceptable, therefore stressing you out when you're wanting to be social? I'm not advocating anything illegal here, but honestly just be yourself and do what you want to do to have fun.
And if you see someone with that look in their eye of "oh my god, I can't take my shirt off, what are all those other queens going to think?" then RIP IT OFF HIM and invite him up to join you for a dance! :)
(Booty) Shaker

[genkij]

I can be plenty social with My shirt on !!

[shaker81]

I can be plenty social with My shirt on !!

I don't doubt that at all - from reading your threads I can see you enjoy sharing your opinion and being vocal/social.

So quick question - what don't you like about the thought of taking off your shirt on the dancefloor? why do you think you're more comfortable with leaving it on?

Not trying to be offensive here or start a thread war so pls don't take it wrong - just curious about your point of view on this...

(Booty) Shaker

[ottart]

this post is one of the problems with gay culture... always someone who thinks others should be excluded for some inane reason... always someoen who is quick witha put down... always someone who is quick to think they are better...

how about you try this...

embrace the *freedom** the guys you dispise so much have..... as another poster stated.... maybe its because you get to an age where you just dont give a toss... and you are not there to impress anyone or conform to some idiotic stereotype some stuck up queens feel the rest of the community should live by....

try accepting your elder gays... because without all the crap they went through... you wouldnt have mardi gras, or so many gay clubs, or pride or any number of other things....

the next time you go to trash someone because you dont like the way they look.... try pulling ya head in... shut ya mouth... and turn your pee sized brain on..... and you may... just may.... see them in a different light...

**gets off soapbox** sheeesh these sort of Qs annoy the daylights out me..

:)

[ottart]

booty... l ove the way you think mr....

more should be like you

:)

[genkij]

Of course - I celebrate freedom .... hello !!

I just think that even though we have the option - you don't have to... I have had a guy pulling at my shirt telling me to take it off (i know hard to beleive !!) But if I don't want to that should be ok too .... I don't take my top off 'cause i have scars from double transplant & well .. I don think that I have anything to look at. I might clear a bigger space around me on the Dance floor (hmm Mental note ! Next time someone steps on my foot at a big dance party - I should try this...) ... I say if you got it flaunt it ! It's very Nice to look at nice thngs ... I am not anti-choice ... It's kinda like this ... just because Lycra can be stretched over someone who is over 175kgs :confused: does not mean we need to see them in it... hey do what you like ... I just think that some times people should think about what they look like.... I am sounding very conservative on this i know and if you know me you would not believe that I am say this.:rolleyes:

I love that we live in a country where we have the choice to be who we are and do what we wanna do !

Peace & love to all (including the shirtless !)
WERD !:)

[midge]

ok this is completely off the subject but i dont understand why femme girls get so much crap for being girly like i'm not one myself quite the opposite lately but if a girl enjoys being a girl and likes to do their hair and make up etc etc, and go out to a gay club it's almost guranteed that someone with say something it's not like they are pretending to be straight they are just dressing how they feel comfortable...

[Mia F]

Omg Midge I totally agree with you!! I have been out for several years and as a femme I often love wearing makeup and getting dressed up in heels, etc. However everytime I go back to the Beat - a gaybar I visited 3 times a week for 3 or 4 years, the new young lesbians who've taken over the place since I moved to Sydney look at me like I'm some straight chick who's wandered in off the street and is completely lost!

[ottart]

its the same as femme guys get trashed... or butch guys get accused of being str8..

its weird... celebrate all our communities differences... a pretty girl is just as beautiful as a butch one rnt they?? ( comeon girls help me out here)

beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

[midge]

i totally agree femme chicks and butch chicks can be just as hot as each other it all comes down to personal taste.

[Seamus Ryan]

I cannot understand why guys who are quite overweight, often midle aged, and generally very unattractive, take their tops off at gay clubs and dance parties.
Time for my first post :) gday everyone!
Perhaps some straight input into this (Joined SS mainly because i love the entire sound alliance network) would be appreciated (unless there already is some...)
I think Tim put it out there perfectly:
My two cents worth is that maybe the "overweight, often middle aged, and generally very unattractive" are not out to impress but to experience the joy, fun and freedom that comes with taking your shirt off and dancing uninhibited.
Now, although my appearance and body aren’t all that attractive (im underweight), i don’t see any reason why that should prohibit me from ever taking my shirt off.
I don’t, and hope i never will, take my shirt of for the sole purpose to impress people.

I, like most people, do it because its either too hot with it on, want to enjoy the party like everyone else, or am just going with the flow and getting into the music as much as the person next to me.

*BTW. If in my time here at SS i say or do anything that offends people, please let me know :)
I have a couple of gay friends, and i dont believe i have ever said/done anything that they disapproved with.

[Sketchy Fletchy]

Well, my question is, why dance shirtless at all? It's not like the lady-types do. Or do they?

HAVE I BEEN MISSING OUT ON SOME INCREDIBLE SECRET ALL THIS TIME?!?!

>Ahem.<

Seriously though - everywhere at Big Day Out there were dudes going shirtless everywhere (not just the boiler room - although the dress code was apprently no shirts allowed in there), and I have no idea why. I gotta tell ya, there's nothing that'll kill the fun of a good mosh like some dickhead without a shirt on jumping up and down and rubbbing his armpit in your face. I can understand the joy and fun of getting around without a shirt on, and yes, the Gym-junkie exhibitionists can get their kicks (weirdos... ;P), but honestly - there's some times it's just not right.

That, and I was kinda freaked out by the number of shirtless people in their early 20's sporting obvious melanoma removal scars. SLIP SLOP SLAP, PEOPLE!

[Mia F]

Yes I definitely agree with you ottart. We should celebrate all our communities differences... I missed fair day this year and will unfortunately miss Mardi Gras but I love the way the whole community comes together and celebrates their differences. Why can't we do it all year round and stop trashing our own community? No wonder celebs and others in the spotlight are wary of coming out - our community can be so judemental at times.

[danny corvini]

I think if it's an outdoor party, taking your shirt off is a very good idea!

Anyone who worries too much about what other people are doing generally need to check themselves.....

[danny corvini]

To all those taking the "why does the gay scene trash its own" kinda stance, keep in mind that the original post was posted TO GET PEOPLE TALKING. It takes controversy to do that. Don't take it so personally.

[danny corvini]

Is it not because camp guys are a threat to butch guys and the other way around?

My impression is that the whole "straight acting thing" is a threat to *some* guys because they just don't get it, don't know how to do it.... can't do it.... and possibly know it's sexier...

While the relaxed, camp style is a perceived threat to some "straight acting" guys, because often the camper guys are more comfortable in the scene, have developed their styles in the scene, and often the "straight acting" guys are that way because they have spent a lot less time in the scene, hence don't quite know how to deal with it when they get 'tude?

[jamieB]

Well that certainly got people talking! - and yes - it did need controversy.

Next topic -

In light of Azure being shut down and the high (and probably disproportionately high) recreational drug use in the gay community --------------------------- why do gays take so many drugs?


I think there are generally two types of drug-takers in the gay community. There are those who genuinely do it to socialise, enjoy an event, hang out with friends, and to enhance the music/keep them going longer.
Then there is the other type who take drugs for what I believe to be very much the wrong reasons - to escape reality. I have had several friends that have gone heavily down this path - taken obscene amoun ts of drugs very regularly to escape the mounting problems in their life for a few hours. I really think this is a growing problem - just as there is the stereotype of the gay hairdresser or flight attendant, there is also the steretype of the young gay guy working a minim um wage job - retail/callcentre that pays just enough to almost cover his rent, his drugs for the weekend and a new top every now and again.

Come on - we all know these sorts of people.

There life is a mess beause they are drowning in debt (and have no plan to get out of it), and all they want to do is escape it instead of facing the reality that their life is going down the toilet (and actually changing it!).
If you are reading this and you are the second type, please dont think I'm saying you are a bad person - just for a moment think about whether the drug use is really 'recreational', and for 'fun' or if you need to have a good hard look at your life and see if this is just making you more miserable. If you lack confidence - drugs will only give you confidence for a few hours.
If you are unhappy with your life - you are only esacping the reality rather than improving it.
If you do 24 hour drug benders every weekend and then wonder why you feel like crap all week at work......................... can you see the cycle you are in.


Sorry if Im ranting like a school teacher but I look at some people when they are lying on a couch at 7am, by themselves in a club eyes rolled back not looking very happy at all, and wonder - 'what is going on in your life!?!?!'

[Tim D]

Great thread Jamie - your thread is the most viewed one so far on Same Same (although it's being chased fast by Azure threads).

Seeing as it's a different topic, do you want to start a new thread with the above question in it? Then we can keep the topics separate! Thanks.

[jamieB]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the kudos - these boards needed a bit of life injected into them!

Maybe put my new question in a new thread called 'things gay people can't understand about the gay community #2 - drugs'
or something like that?
maybe change this first thread to '#1 - tops off'

[genkij]

Oh & what about those tops off on drugs !!

Tut Taut !!:p :eek: :eek: