The Appeal Of The Peel

[Christian Taylor]

So, The Peel are back in the news again. (http://www.samesame.com.au/news/local/822/Gay_Bar_Wins_Right_To_Out_Straights) First it was all about *that ANZAC Day poster* and now they've just been granted exemption from equal opportunity laws. Some people are saying this is setting the wrong example, others are saying that it's not too much to ask for a bunch of gay men to have an exclusive space.

What do you think?

[burgjo]

i think the exemption precedence was set years ago when fernwood health clubs won the right to exclude men on the basis that it provides a safe environment for women. Whats next though? Is this a new form of apartheid? Gays over there and straights over here...... why can't we all just get along??

[alison87]

I'm not too fussed about clubs in general changing their door policies. (Reckon it's completely braindead they need government support to do it.) Of course door policy changes do suck when you're left on the outside, but that's life. In this case i am on the outside and i'm disappointed because The Peel was probably the most mixed gay club in Melbourne. The Commercial Rd strip feels awfully dominated by gay men and fag hags. I don't feel like there're many dedicated venues that have a good balance of boys and girls any more. Oh well, guess i'll keep going straight clubbing and the Melbourne "gay" venues will miss out on my pink dollar.

[Pete Dillon]

I wonder about the precedence we are setting ......

If we are trying to integrate with the broader community and remove some of the obvious discriminatory and homophobic excuses hetero goons have used to perpetrate violence against us, then becoming a segregated venue is a step backwards.

What about those that identify as bisexual, and are currently in an opposite sex relationship - where does this leave them when wanting a night out in a safe environment?

What about those of us who have friends of both sexes and of mixed sexual identification? Can we no longer gather in avenue on the north side because some identify as straight?

What about those that identify as queer but are not necessarily homosexual?

I think this is a dangerous move and I am sure that there were other ways to prevent the admittance of straight men, hens et al to the club. There is already a bar on the north of town that does not admit women, men dressed as women (either in drag or transgendered) and is clearly an exclusively male domain.

And what about the responsibility of the venue? Simply having more and better informed security on the door would alleviate the bulk of the problems - it is they who are admitting hens and gawking heteros int he first place.

I really worry that we have opened a big pink can of whoopass here and it is both dangerous and divisive.

[jimjazz]

I would have thought any venue has the right to exclude any patrons on the basis of their bad behaviour - regardless of their sexuality. It seems that this action, no matter how well intentioned, continues to drive a cultural wedge between those who identify as straight and those who identify as gay. This choice unwittingly exacerbates the problem of homophobia by cementing an attitude of us and them. I deplore homophobic behaviour but i believe any venue is entitled to a house policy that removes unsavoury characters; after all there is a liquor license that prevents the service of alcohol to an intoxicated individual and this is rarely upheld. Does abuse or attack by someone else who is gay and drunk not constitute justification for eviction? Eviction from a venue should be based on behaviour, NOT sexuality, or we simply mainfest the tired old case of reverse discrimination. The application to the EO should be based on ANYONE who behaves appallingly towards people based on sexuality or anything else for that matter - including race. Members of the gay community can be equally racist and I am sure there would be none too few members of other cultural communities who have experienced such behaviour. Where is their protection? It's so easy to apply blanket policy; it's far more intelligent to employ am approach that encourages patrons to report unacceptable behaviour in the venue and the venue to action it accordingly. Prejudice is a human condition - not the reserve of heterosexuals - let us approach such issues with the understanding that we all can do a whole lot more to foster respect towards each other - no matter our values, beliefs, cultural origins or sexual orientations.

[Nixatnite]

Why would any str8 want to be at that bar? Its a full on extreme sceney gay culture filled with porn and dark male energy. Surely is not a place a true straight person would enjoy! I agree if women are just coming in and treating it like a side show or novelty they should not be allowed in. Theres not enough truely gay areas anymore! :o

[lagerbay]

I don't think The Peel has at any time said or suggested that they want to ban heterosexual people or lesbians from their establishment. What they have said is that there are times when groups of heterosexual people should be excluded if, in the judgement of their (very experienced and pleasant) door staff, there is a genuine risk that the loyal gay clientele will be adversely affected. As the law stands, this would not be a valid reason to exclude entry to a person or persons, so it was necessary to seek this exemption.

What's the big deal? Its not anti-hetero and its not aapartheid. Its simply a measure to provide protection to ACTUAL events. I've seen it and so have you if you've ever been.

Gays and lesbians are a minority and sometimes at risk. Its a perfect justification for some affirmative action I would have thought. It also seems reasonable that Tom wants to exercise a duty of care.

[Frickasee]

I think a public house is a public house ! If the patrons are to be segregated by sexual preferences, surely that should be done in specific areas such as private clubs and the like.

[ap_bcd]

Why would any str8 want to be at that bar? Its a full on extreme sceney gay culture filled with porn and dark male energy. Surely is not a place a true straight person would enjoy! :o

Well straights do come in to the peel. They sometimes get agressive and ruin the night for those of us just out for a night with our own. Sometimes guys and girls come in and gawk at you. It get's downright creepy sometimes.

If this kind of exemption is required to guarentee that there is a gay space in Melbourne then so be it. There are other pubs such as the Greyhound and Stingo's that accomodate a mixed crowd better anyway, so what's the big deal about one space.

In any case there won't be a test at the door (although that could be fun - quote a Bette Davis line for entry), this just give a legal standing to refuse entry to obvious groups, or remove those who have become obnoxious.

Finally I doubt Tom has done this on a whim, if there wasn't a real need for this exemption then I doubt he would have gone down the path of seeking an exemption with all the press it was bound to generate.

[pilkington]

The Peel is by far one of the skankiest clubs/pubs out there which has an absolutely tragic regular crowd, dated decor and extremely rude staff. The fact that anyone goes there has eluded me for years. However, I believe their descision to ban heterosexuals, lesbians and anyone else who may remind them of the real world outside the grotty, sweaty walls of the establisment is a giant step backwards for equality. Even my best mate who is a self proclaimed fag hag, loved the Peel and has been a regular for over 5 years has black listed the establishment because of this ridiculous ruling. This law is going to pave the way for regular bars to turn around and state that gays and lesbians are not welcome in 'straight clubs'. Why don't we just go way back to the days when men and women were separated in the pub, the boys at the bar and the ladies in the lounge! Poor form Peel, enjoy your financial suicide

[stock_standard]

Certainly a venue should have the right to remove and exclude anyone who is a problem for the general patrons of any venue, gay or str8. So of course that means a law or two to back them up.
How ever, we are in the middle of something in the fact that, both gay and straight are still not equal side by side.
Wilst yes somewere like Furnwood ,have managed to obtain the right to exclude men from there venue's. Did they try something like that wilst women were still trying to get equal rights? NO they waited till they were equal.
I think this general theme and potential problems should be tacken into account when looking at topics like these.

[phantom47]

I don't think The Peel has at any time said or suggested that they want to ban heterosexual people or lesbians from their establishment. What they have said is that there are times when groups of heterosexual people should be excluded if, in the judgement of their (very experienced and pleasant) door staff, there is a genuine risk that the loyal gay clientele will be adversely affected. As the law stands, this would not be a valid reason to exclude entry to a person or persons, so it was necessary to seek this exemption.

What's the big deal? Its not anti-hetero and its not aapartheid. Its simply a measure to provide protection to ACTUAL events. I've seen it and so have you if you've ever been.

Gays and lesbians are a minority and sometimes at risk. Its a perfect justification for some affirmative action I would have thought. It also seems reasonable that Tom wants to exercise a duty of care.
Well stated - some people are over reacting to this ruling. As you say, no one is being banned per se!

I am a Syd person (originally from Melb) and usually visit the Peel when I venture south. I love the venue and have enjoyed socialising there. The door staff appear to effectively manage the entry (and exits, when appropriate!) of punters.

[comstarr]

While the Peel is predominantly gay men i myself (an out and about dyke) have been there several times when in melb and so have many of my melb sisters. I'm all for keeping gay spaces gay (really am over being hit on by st men when i'm trying to have a good evening) but only for gay men? There is precious little lesbian spaces as it is now you're restricting us from the gay ones as well?!

[dazl]

Hmm! I thought it comes more down to a education, security and hotel policy issue rather than what has happened here. This I see is bad news and we're all going to have to dig our heels in even harder now. I hate living with discrimination against me.

Straights really as the law stood could not be refused entry and vice versa.

Because there seemed to be a pattern that had developed within the pub that was usually "curiously" cowering somewhere out there in the burbs at all times, waiting to explode undetected at anything "doesn't mean just Gay's". Or some game that a group of really desperate men if you can call them that, do for a kick. Says to me a severe lack of education and about policy upon entry to the hotel. These "men" and some women I have no doubt need real psychiatric help. Someone please tell me just how do you get through to these people? These desperate people have nothing better to do. The Hotel and its genuine clients are an easy target for these psycho's.

The law and public education has to tackle this problem harder as the message is not getting through to some people. As the generations go by some still seep through the cracks, hating them self and punishing others for their selfish loathing . "It is not okay to bash up or degrade anyone for anything" and the Law needs to come down really hard on these people. I say show and shame and if they don't listen time and again put them in jail "they are bullies". A faster response from the police and a dedicated team to identify the ones that are to weak to face up to what it really is in their head that they are so afraid of.

For gays when we go into what we feel within our bones is obviously a "straight" pub or club you know the ones they are everywhere. Know instantly there is an unwritten rule. Be careful. It's just the way it is. Most of us have it within to behave. We don't lurk around the streets in groups looking to bash anything that moves up.

Toleration doesn't mean you have to be a friend. Just be friendly then move along.
I think I'm undecided but think something better could have been planned than contradicting a law designed for supposedly everyone.

Law and Education are at fault not the pub. Darren Smith