Being gay and then being non-white

[ambience77]

Has anyone been treated differently - good or bad - because of being an asian or other ethnic groups like blacks, arabs, euros in the gay community?

Please share some of your experiences. How do you usually cope or deal with it? Have you ever had anyone confrontation in the public domain, online dating, chat line etc..

[Cheetah77]

While I can't comment as I'm as white as they come, you havenm't told us about your experience ambience... maybe you can get the ball rolling and you may remind people about aspects of their own by reading yours...

[ambience77]

sorry i will do it after lunch .. i was on a shoot all morning..

[ambience77]

I grew up in Melbourne, from primary to the workforce. I had little conflict with race issues. I guess I was lucky in a sense that I was living in Eastern suburb where diversity in culture is embraced. When you grow up in the neighbourhood, you mix with other kids, and kids usually don't question the colour of your skin. On the other hand bullies do exist in high school, occasionally you get the "you nip, wog or nigger" But it’s something you have to deal with it as a teen, either dop them in before it becomes out of control. So there is always a peer looking over you when you’re in school.

Then when I came out to the gay community, in my early years (19-21) I tended to bump into walls a lot. I guess I had no idea that there were boundaries between whites and other ethnic groups whether you're gay or not. I was naïve to think that my straight friends can be in an inter-racial relationship just like that, so that means I can be in a inter-racial relationship or friendship when you’re gay as well. It wasn’t easy, you get the occasional knock backs even if you offer to chat or friendship.

One time my partner (gwm) and I were having a cuppa on our balcony – this is in the inner west of Syd. We overheard two GWM from upstairs talking down on gay asians. One asked “where do you find an asian to pork?” The other replied – “well im sure if you go to the Shift Gaysha night, anyone of them would open their legs for you.” That is so disgusting, the fact that some people would go to the length of having this thought is like ughhh..

On gay dating sites you get the unnecessary ‘no gay Asians, fem or blacks” comments. I don’t think people should really spell it out, I mean, if you don’t say it, then it won’t be an issue, then the reader won’t feel threatened by it. Online dating and chat sites are meant to bring people together, not separate people according to their skin colour. I totally respect that not sexually attracted to a person because of their race is understandable but the comments above suggest that you shouldn’t even communicate or work with them is plain silly. They might learn something from other cultures and might lead to something new.

But these days, I am glad to see there are more gay inter-racial. I have met a few white guys recently who claimed that they were never interested in Asians but are now dating them and are learning new things about the cultures outside their own.

I’d say that everyone should respect other preferences, but don’t shut them out.

[Michaelbourke]

Well done Ambience ;) Good to see a post... I will be an avid reader of all responses

[peeter]

Great post Ambience.. you've certainly opened my eyes and I feel like a total bastard.. you see I was one of those people that requested "no Asians, no fatties" reply on my gaydar profile.. at the time, I would receive a heap of gaydar messages and unfortunately, gay Asian men don't do it for me.. I stupidly thought to solve the influx of messages, I would specify what I was not into... I really didn't think it would cause offence, i thought it was simply listing my likes and dislikes.. So, I apologise profusely for being one of those types.. :o

[Nevarro]

This is a very interesting topic and I have to be careful or my “acid tongue” may run away with me…

The thing that I find amusing is the way that gay guys – and possibly girls – contradict themselves in everyday life.
(This post can be expanded past racial)
Think back to school – the fat kid, the ugly kid, the red headed kid, the poor kid, the “insert racial slander” kid, the smelly kid….. but most importantly there was you “THE FAGGOT” kid –

How much did we hate it?
How much did we want it to stop?
How much did we hate the world because of it?

Kids can be cruel – they bully and tease, cause they can and it makes them feel better….

Well the fact is, in 2007 it still exists – and im sure so many of you reading this may still be victims of it – but im sure at some time you are also THE OFFENDER!
Be honest here – have you never made fun of someone because of something?
Bad hair
Bad clothes
Bad “insert something”

Im sure you have – and most of the time you don’t even realise what you are doing, it just comes naturally!

And this is where we become a contradiction!
For so long we wanted to fit in and for the teasing to stop, for the hate to stop, for people to just let us be who we are…. And most of the time we get it… until we turn on our own!
The twinks hate the bears
The queens hate the Asians
The muscles hate the fems
The poofs hate the dykes
Its all there all the time


Now im sure there are reasons why we make fun of others, why we point out THEIR flaws and differences – to make us feel better about ourselves –
From my experience it happens usually to get a laugh, But I believe it also stems from the self-consciousness of a person

You disagree ?? im sure you do.
But do you not do it? Of course you don’t.

Its called a subconscious for a reason …


The gay world is a vicious vicious place… but it’s the only place I call home – I learnt very quickly in life to let things go “like water off a ducks back”…
At times it can be hard but I know I cant take things to heart other wise ill end up a mess…


p.s its happening in our forums - someting about the redheaded kid?
http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=464

[inmysoul]

The other replied – “well im sure if you go to the Shift Gaysha night, anyone of them would open their legs for you.”
That guy is just so confident,doesnt he :D ?

In my opinion, people have different taste and we can post a thread but cant force them to like some1,something that they don't. :)

[Cheetah77]

Great post Nevarro - sometimes we're in so deep, looking out for other people to point the finger at that we forget to stop and look at ourselves once in a while....

Well said!

[ashtroboy]

great posts ambience and nevarro

i'm a gwm, and i am guilty of saying things like 'i don't do rice' and even seeing what other names friends and i can make, like 'curry, gasian (gay asian) and yeh, it's usually just to fit in with those around me. But also, we have gay asian friends that play on it as well - but whatever the case, it's like agreeing with str8 friends that go 'that's so gay!' when refering negatively to something - i laugh at the time, but a tiny part inside of me feels insulted - and im sure it's the same for asian people, and probably more so.

i'm trying something this year, as some kind of late resolution - to try and gain harmony amoung those i love, those around me i hold dear, and within myself.. i know right from wrong - my mother taught me well - but she can't do much to help me if i now choose to do the wrong.
So we all have a choice.

i think it's just laziness that gay guys are so bitchy amoung their own community. because being witty and spiteful in the form of sarcasm and humour is the easiest thing for a gay guy to be. I think it shows far more depth and esteem to be the gay guy that's nice.

You like what you like, no matter what race, accent, sexuality etc - the question is, do you like being discriminated? Is it fair?

If your answer is no - then why do it to someone else?

~+~

[robbie]

i'm a gwm, and i am guilty of saying things like 'i don't do rice' But also, we have gay asian friends that play on it as well

Yeah me too, guilty.. I have an asian "friend" whose nickname is Long-grain (because of the size of his appendage) and he promotes his nickname more than anyone! :eek:

[burgjo]

again it's all about our inane need to label everything in life.......... why do we have to put everyone and everything into boxes with labels....gay/straight, asian/caucasian etc etc...... the whole no gam or blacks etc really bugs me - we are all attracted to different people - but most of us won't say - no short people for example..... why then is there the need to exclude on race etc...... discrimination at it's best! from a group who should have a much greater respect for what discrimination means!

[Michaelbourke]

rac·ism –noun
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
Hatred or intolerance of another race or other races


None of us is a perfect being, yes, we all succumb to racial stereotyping and we justify it quite readily. I have been the victim of racism by none other than a group of drunk/drugged gay Asian males. And have on more than one occasion been witness to gay Asian males slagging of white and other races. So are we in a win win lose lose situation? Or is this just the society we live in today??

I am not sure what defines a racist these days and what is racist behaviour.

I like myself, and my exotic nature, I like my mix and the fact that I don’t look like anyone else I know or have seen. You see, everything about me is unique. Flawed (not to complex). Growing up I was fat, dark and in an all white school, of course I copped it big time, but it did not shape me negatively, in fact it has done nothing but strengthen my resolve to be the best human being I can be. I played irresponsible victim for years and when I started taking some form of responsibility for my emotions, I ended up here, strong, independent, sexy and a believer in the best in people. I want people to look at me and see something different, I love that the first question I get asked is "where are you from?" I LOVE IT.

So yes, I am a gay male of a mixed background. I am not Asian and admittedly I am not attracted to Asian men, I find most to be beautiful, soft skin etc. But if my preference is for big hairy white men does that make me racist? I have made this point before, if someone swept me off my feet and they were non-white, then of course I would follow my heart :)

So I don’t know if there will ever be an answer to this issue, I suspect it will be ongoing and ever-present. My hairdresser told me that her children do not know what racism is. They are of Iranian stock and mix with Dutch, Chinese, Lebanese, and white kids all-day and everyday.

Maybe Whitney Houston got it right…"I believe the children are our future"

[ambience77]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, tastes, likes and dislikes and preferences. Of course we judge others in public and gossip or bitch about your friends with another, but whether you say it out loud and be heard or do it among yourselves is completely different. There's backstabbing, at least it's not heard (if eventually it comes back to you, ah well I guess that's back luck) but then there's confrontation. I agree with Nevarro that this thread does go beyond the race issues, it is about bully in general and the level of tolerance.

The other week a girl was talking to another workmate about me, she thought she whispered it, but when she barks it’s usually heard. I paused my itune to hear what she was bitching, I thought to myself “Pffft, you’re just a loud cow who gossip about everyone”. It is common courtesy that you shouldn’t gossip about others in an office or when the person you are talking about is present. I have a high level of tolerance these days, I used to be sensitive but I have learnt that if you react then you are probably just as bad as the person who talks about you.

I am sure that most people just type whatever they want on the gay chat or dating sites, because usually they run out of crap to say about themselves or what they like. Unless you are writing a biography, you wouldn’t go back and correct yourself to make it serious. But unfortunately, some people have neglected to see the bigger picture of what type of emotion, distress it might cause others. Some people take it like a grain of salt, but some people are sensitive and they can’t handle it when it’s being directed at them. It’s the lack of compassion in that regard and it is a big part when people communicate and it depends how smart the person is when he or she tries to deliver the message across.

Violence begets violence. Any form of bullying is a form of violence, whether verbal or
action. World leaders in the form of entertainers, certain politicians, activists are trying hard to bring people together from different backgrounds, races or sexualities. They sing about it, write about it, publicise it and have been doing it for years since slice bread.

Just think if you were not gay, would you (or the general public, except those of Pauline Hanson tribe) choose friends, clients, workmates by their colours? I surely don’t think so, it has not happened to me or to any of my friends who are of different race. People just don’t do that these days, it’s of no harm to get to know someone. You eat their food, go to their restaurants, visit their countries so how hard is it to get to know the people.

If the message of acceptance and tolerance can past onto one person then there’s one less chance of violence in the world. You help one person which helps the next. We should all take responsibilities of our own actions.

Personally I like or dislikes someone according to their individual, personalities or attitudes and not to their race. I do admit that I have more Aussie friends in general than Asians even from school til working, it’s not by choice but by chance – the types of course that I studied and the type of work that I am doing.

I’m sure there are other ways around saying “what you don’t like”. And I'm saying this from any race towards each other.

[GenesisInVain]

Insert two cents here.

OK. I'm Asian, although I don't like to admit it as I believe the Philippines is somewhat different to the countries and cultures found on mainland Asia.
Anyways, its hard for me to agree and disagree but what I will say is that, its a matter of preference. I mena i love SWEDISH boys and I know it, and then my preferences go from there but if I happen to me someone who is Asian, Caucasian, African, Latino (yummo) or whatever and I fall in love I'm not going to discriminate. Love knows no gender or race. The answer is basically just a matter of preference, it doesn't make you racist.

[jackie87]

I have a lot of Asian, Middle Eastern, Mediterranean, Jewish and mixed race friends both female, male gay, straight and trans so I find out that if I treat them any differently how is that different to making catty remarks about Asians having small penises or "go to the Shift", etc.

However, not too long ago I was at ARQ and there was this guy there who we saw and he was of Arab heritage and yelled at us "Hey Aussies" in a condescending tone, I know how it must feel to be called "chinky" or "lebo" because that really offended us even though not all of us were Australian but we were all white, so that should be counted as racism also.

[ambience77]

Honest. Labelling some as racist is the most extreme scenario. I would never class those who knock me back as racists. I might say they're ignorant or silly billies for not giving a fair go.

It's like sexist, ageist etc, they are only at the extreme level and only a minority of population exist, maybe b/c of their family background.

I know some asian cultures who have racial conflict with Japanese because of the world war.. it is understandable, because they took away their wealth, families, home or whatever belonged to them - And then there's some Jewish who do not like Germans. Or Honkies have prejudice against mainland Chinese. All these usually apply to the older generation, however. The education system in Australia does not tolerate this kind of discrimination, thank goodness.

Like I mentioned it's how you say it that matters most. It's no good to make others feel bad about themselves. We are all on this earth for one reason - to live and enjoy our lives in more ways than one.

[jackie87]

Or Honkies have prejudice against mainland Chinese.

Omg, there is one dickhead at my uni who will not stop going on about how "ugly" and "deformed" mainland Chinese people are, when I would strongly argue that he seems a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

[ambience77]

Omg, there is one dickhead at my uni who will not stop going on about how "ugly" and "deformed" mainland Chinese people are, when I would strongly argue that he seems a few sandwiches short of a picnic.

cute.. few sandwichese short.. I often hear losing a few marbles but never sandwiches :p

Maybe that guy has some insecurities about himself?

[jackie87]

Yes, I think very insecure, and mostly for attention