Quote:

Originally Posted by meezon04

I am RIGHT with you on this one tyson!
I look at SO many profiles and CRINGE lol - no asians, no femmes, straight-acting etc. They are all LABELS!!!
I happen to find MANY asians attractive. I also find androgyny amazing!! 4-wheel driving and camping - yeah I don't mind it - grew up on a farm but it isn't my favourite thing to do in the world.
So whether I'm attracted to a hot jock or a geeky twink or an athletic Asian/American/Whatever, I dunno - I am attracted to looks, but I don't write off whole races because of my personal preferences. I'm attracted to "straight-acting" (and I agree, WHO CARES) and I'm also attracted to 'Femme'. I can't name one of my friends who don't say a snide remark or judge someone when they see a really queeny guy at the club. I only judge them if they are a complete bitch - otherwise, I give em a chance.

Oh yr so right. People are trapped by prejudice and a lot of time don't even realise it. Waste.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyson

Am I the only one who finds 99.9% of manhunt/gaydar profiles offensive beyond the extreme?

Also, what is with every guy being into camping or 4 wheel driving? When did that happen? What happened to being into Liza or musicals? Whenever I confront a guy about it the typical response is, "it just doesn't do it for me - no offence", which is exactly like saying, "I'm not racist but ...".

Sure we've all got preferences. I like spellers. You know, someone who knows the difference between your and you're and knows there's no such word as "alot". And yes, I've been known to discriminate against non-spellers so maybe I'm a hypocrite.

But what's with straight acting? When did that become desirable? Am I the only one who finds the term "straight acting" at worst homophobic and at best confusing? What's straight acting about a guy blowing another guy or am I being naive? I would be very surprised if lesbians use the term.

Why aren't libraries as hot as nightclubs? Can you imagine a gay library? Why isn't a reader's build as desirable as a swimmer's build? Why isn't knowing all the words and moves to every STEPS song including the alternative second chorus chorey in Tragedy the kind of "camping" they're all talking about?

Hi Tyson, I agree with you. I am looking for a good speller too!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducknroll

How about instead of telling everyone what you don't want, tell them what you do want?

I do that, use to do that only and not sound negative at all, but with too many bad dates/dating I thought I would include what I don't want to encounter as well ...

but enough of that ... have decided the usual sites are not the way to go anyway

It seems that the community or scene or whatever you want to call it is constantly in flux and or at odds with itself. On one hand it wants to present itself as a unified, coherant group that has ideals and stands for equality of all cause 'we're all just ppl right'?

Inside that...well, it seems that there is a constant struggle for acceptance, because there's this "we're all gay" stance that is presented, we get caught up in it and think we need to be accepted by the community.

I just do my own thing, no profiles...not even really on here, I prefer to meet someone the old fashioned way, just through friendship or other people or groups, there's no facade there...you can't put on a mask that's a pic from five years ago, and if you're (or they're) a douche then it can becomes obvious. Like attracts like....doesn't work when we're all pretending to be someone we aren't.

$0.02 from me

Quote:

"straight acting" = "i'm scared people might think i'm gay even though I behave in a masculine way" or "I deliberately behave in a masculine way just trying to fool people into thinking i'm not gay".

I hardly see how ones way of life needs to be different because they're gay or straight.

I absolutely love asian men (well some of them), there is no bullshit to them and they are so tolerant.
Also honest and affectionate lovers...I cannot understand the whole 'No Asian' thing...your missing out big time.

I absolutely love asian men (well some of them), there is no bullshit to them and they are so tolerant.
Also honest and affectionate lovers...I cannot understand the whole 'No Asian' thing...your missing out big time.

not to mention their slim toned and tanned bodies, full lips awsome dark hair, awsome asses (umm yeah if you don't like em yu so gay)............

Its sad this whole thing but it is the harsh reality of the world... I don't know everyone says girls a bitchy, however gay men can be just as nasty... I am not ashamed to admit that I am a bigger guy... I've come to accept that that's not everyones cup of tea therefore I dont bother anymore meeting people online for dates etc.

Everyone is so caught up and hung up on their expectations sometimes it gets the better of them.

I am not ashamed of myself or who I am as a person based primarily on my appearance. I am just as happy going through the motions of life as I normally do.

One day I would like to find someone, however the way some of these guys in their profiles treat you, its along the lines of....change everything about yourself including your image and you may become socially acceptable.

Whatever..

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_here

I absolutely love asian men (well some of them), there is no bullshit to them and they are so tolerant.
Also honest and affectionate lovers...I cannot understand the whole 'No Asian' thing...your missing out big time.

not to mention their slim toned and tanned bodies, full lips awsome dark hair, awsome asses (umm yeah if you don't like em yu so gay)............

That's a very racist remark and full of exoticfication. Do you have a problem with the beauty of all humanity and seeing people for who they are as individuals and not what they as a type?

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoten85

Its sad this whole thing but it is the harsh reality of the world... I don't know everyone says girls a bitchy, however gay men can be just as nasty... I am not ashamed to admit that I am a bigger guy... I've come to accept that that's not everyones cup of tea therefore I dont bother anymore meeting people online for dates etc.

Everyone is so caught up and hung up on their expectations sometimes it gets the better of them.

I am not ashamed of myself or who I am as a person based primarily on my appearance. I am just as happy going through the motions of life as I normally do.

One day I would like to find someone, however the way some of these guys in their profiles treat you, its along the lines of....change everything about yourself including your image and you may become socially acceptable.

Whatever..

Hugs TT85. I know what you're going through. Yet remember there are bears out there who want people to be like bears and won't go for anything other than a bear. I've known guys to change to be a bear so they can be accepted by bears. Exactly the same as a guy losing weight and getting muscled up.

I agree with you Ash and thanks for the hugs , however I am speaking on a more general wider scale of the gay scene... like i have had guys say to me if you were a bit skinnier we'd date you, which is fine....but then leads to the question what makes u think they will show the same interest in you when you make the changes. In addition, the bear community is only one part.. I am not too worried about them at this point... I will not change myself for anyone, more on my own terms.

I am not too worried about fitting in because I've got my friends and I am happy for that

Quote:

Originally Posted by twoten85

I agree with you Ash and thanks for the hugs , however I am speaking on a more general wider scale of the gay scene... like i have had guys say to me if you were a bit skinnier we'd date you, which is fine....but then leads to the question what makes u think they will show the same interest in you when you make the changes. In addition, the bear community is only one part.. I am not too worried about them at this point... I will not change myself for anyone, more on my own terms.

I am not too worried about fitting in because I've got my friends and I am happy for that

Oh I've had that as well. From muscle guys lecturing me at Bodyline to look after myself better to bears chiding me for losing weight and shaving. I've come to the point that I'm not interested in anyone who has a 'type' as such, since they are all shallow and dull.

As for fitting in, you're on the right track.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ducknroll

How about instead of telling everyone what you don't want, tell them what you do want?

Maybe people may say that because they are open to most of what comes around except forone or two deal-breakers.

If that is the case then it is much more efficient to mention the one or two no-go features than to list the entire spectrum of what would be acceptable for the person - which if lengthy no one would be likely to read anyhow.

For example if you had a particular food allergy you would mention the particular foods you cannot eat rather than ALLL of the ones that you could, since there would probably be many many possibilities but only a few impossibilities.

However, if they were only after one or two things, then it would make sense to just list those few things - perhaps with an 'only' in front of the phrase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by just_here

I absolutely love asian men (well some of them), there is no bullshit to them and they are so tolerant.
Also honest and affectionate lovers...I cannot understand the whole 'No Asian' thing...your missing out big time.

not to mention their slim toned and tanned bodies, full lips awsome dark hair, awsome asses (umm yeah if you don't like em yu so gay)............

I've seen MANY fat pasty people with Asian genes as well. People from Asia - just like those from the other continents - come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and pignmentations. So, Let's not answer a discrimination with a narrow stereotype.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

Oh I've had that as well. From muscle guys lecturing me at Bodyline to look after myself better to bears chiding me for losing weight and shaving. I've come to the point that I'm not interested in anyone who has a 'type' as such, since they are all shallow and dull.

As for fitting in, you're on the right track.

You actually talk to people at Bodyline?
Mr Ash I thought you would be too bust slurping willys...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

Oh I've had that as well. From muscle guys lecturing me at Bodyline to look after myself better to bears chiding me for losing weight and shaving. I've come to the point that I'm not interested in anyone who has a 'type' as such, since they are all shallow and dull.

As for fitting in, you're on the right track.

Thats fantastic!

Although we may unite on particular causes of shared interest, its refreshing to see that there's not just a single stereotypical way-to-be-gay and that we are something other than a monotonous cluster of drones. They gay community - like everyone else - has a variety of tastes and a variety of offering. OMG that seems sooo 'normal' :-) yay us!

I am asian and thanks for the nice compliments. I have never never thought that cauasians said that asians are cute. lol I thought that causasians are interested in making friends with their cauasians cos of comfortable language - english. We asians don't speak english probably and it's hard to make friends and chat with cauasians. I'm not good at talking and don't know how to brought up the conservation when we meet new friends.

Last time, i meet some good looking causaians and I would like to make friend with them. I tried to talk to them but they didnt undertstand me or judged my appearance or whatever I don't know. Man it's so hard to find someone who has a good heart, try to understand me or whatever. I am somewhat depressed and don't know what to do with new people.

BTW... im curious why some guys said "No asians"? What's the reason? Does it mean that they don't want to have an asian partner except friends?

Way too much emphasis on someones looks or nationality.

Simply some folk are not out to explore their own boundaries or enjoy something different or learn something, most are just in these places to
reinforce their own pitiful presence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pixel

I thought that causasians are interested in making friends with their cauasians cos of comfortable language - english.

We asians don't speak english probably and it's hard to make friends and chat with cauasians. I'm not good at talking and don't know how to brought up the conservation when we meet new friends.

Last time, i meet some good looking causaians and I would like to make friend with them. I tried to talk to them but they didnt undertstand me . . .

A) Race and Lanaguage are separate phonomena.

Race does not determine what language a person can acquire or what one's native language will be.

Not every Caucasian is a native speaker of English or speaks English flawlessly as a second language.

Many Asians - and people from other identity-groups - DO speak English as their first lanaguge.



B) As a communication and cognitive system, Language is the basic way in which people itneract.

If people lack the shared ground for interaction (lanaguge) is it any surprise that they do not develop strong bonds?

If lacking a shared language makes it much more difficult to determine that someone is even interesting enough to pursue, is it a surprising that the high-maintenance option is bypassed for an easier-to-determine option [with a shared language]?

If - because one hasn't learnt that language - one is unable to communicate with a speaker of any lanaguge, why say that it is a race issue? That's a bit of a cop-out and misdiagnosis the issue-at-hand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

A) Race and Lanaguage are separate phonomena.

Race does not determine what language a person can acquire or what one's native language will be.

Not every Caucasian is a native speaker of English or speaks English flawlessly as a second language.

Many Asians - and people from other identity-groups - DO speak English as their first lanaguge.

1.) I don't think pixel was actually referring to genetics, it was just a general description of a demographic.
Most probably Pixel can speak English though not as eloquently as yourself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

B) As a communication and cognitive system, Language is the basic way in which people itneract.

Oh yes and who says this?
I think it is one element of interaction and is not at all basic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

If people lack the shared ground for interaction (lanaguge) is it any surprise that they do not develop strong bonds?

At what point?
And are you saying we need to be able to speak fluent English to form bonds?

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

If lacking a shared language makes it much more difficult to determine that someone is even interesting enough to pursue, is it a surprising that the high-maintenance option is bypassed for an easier-to-determine option [with a shared language]?

Of course this is the case in a nightclub.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

If - because one hasn't learnt that language - one is unable to communicate with a speaker of any lanaguge, why say that it is a race issue? That's a bit of a cop-out and misdiagnosis the issue-at-hand.

*See Response 1).

Many of the points brought up further emphasise and validate the frustrations of communicating in a particular language of which you are not a native speaker. I think these are valid points but challenge the validity of the posting’s blanket generalisation that Caucasians are all English-Speakers and Asians are not.

I don't think pixel was actually referring to genetics, it was just a general description of a demographic.
I agree. Language is not an inherited trait.
Whilst people from every genetic makeup are inherently capable of language, their genetic makeup has nothing to do with the particular language(s) they will acquire.

The posting ignores this fact.

The poster does claim, however:
"causasians are interested in making friends with their cauasians cos of comfortable language – English”[sic]
“We asians don't speak English”[sic]

Most probably Pixel can speak English though not as eloquently as yourself.
Let’s agree that when responding to a particular posting that we are actually responding to the content of it and not putting words into other people's mouths -or posts.

The Pixel-post does express frustrations in communicating in a non-native language:
“I'm not good at talking and don't know how to brought up the conservation” [sic]
“ I tried to talk to them but they didnt undertstand me” [sic]

The poster expresses very clearly that his skills are not presently at the level demanded by the task which he is attempting.

Oh yes and who says this?

The fundamental role of language in being human is accepted by the mainstream of such fields as evolutionary anthropology, linguistics, and cultural studies.

Jared Diamond does a good job synthesising the findings from credible scholarly sources and explaining them in a way that is accessible to people without specialist training in his book, “The Rise and Fall of the Third Chimpanzee”. It is a worthwhile read for those who are interested such topics as human biological, social, and cognitive evolution and diversification.
** see also Stephen Pinker, below

It may be argued that non-verbal, signals and gestures are means of communicating and expressing ideas which are divorced from particular language and culture identities.
However, commonplace gestures mean various things which are particular to various language-cultures and mean very different things in different situations.

Such devices which convey various meanings within various language-cultures include: thumbs-up or ‘OK’; the ‘come here’ finger wiggle and the two-finger ‘horns’ sign; sticking up ones ‘pinkie’ finger. Even nodding/shaking of the head up can mean either ‘yes’ or ‘no’ depending upon who is performing the gesture and who is observing it. The two-finger peace sign means something very different based on the subtle change of whether the palm or the knuckle is facing the viewer.

The fundamental role of language is illustrated by the realms of Government, Law and Crime – all of which shape and direct human interaction. Things are legal or illegal because they are said or written to be so. A particular activity may be reprehensible, but it is not illegal until it is said to be so. We are deemed guilty or not in a court of law because of what we have to say about our case and how we go about saying that. The jury members responsible for making this determination and the admissibility of evidence are selected through a process of Voir Dire – roughly “Speak the Truth”.

I think it is one element of interaction and is not at all basic.

In his book The Language Instinct, Stephen Pinker presents language as a fundamental and innate ability of humans selected by evolution to facilitate communication among social hunter-gatherers.

Please let us know if you are familiar with society anywhere on the planet that possesses NO language?

Please also let us know some examples of tools which are more fundamental, more efficient and more commonly used as default method of interaction than is language (written, spoken, and sign-language forms)?

At what point?
And are you saying we need to be able to speak fluent English to form bonds?

It is a misunderstanding to conclude that native English Speakers are the only people to enjoy friendships. The particular language is irrelevant - the shared use of English would be just as suitable as shared use Thai or Quechua, or Icelandic, or any other tongue – but forming strong bonds and working well together is going to be much more successful when two people share a language.

Of course this is the case in a nightclub

It’s not clear where the nightclub example comes from. We would need the author to confirm if the context of his communication-difficulties are occurring in a club or in some other context(s). The post doesn’t actually specify.

What we do know is that the posting focusses on how difficult it is to “make friends and chat” when two people do not share a common language.

I see Tyson has deserted this joyless thread

Well "LongHorn" after all that I cannot be bothered with inserting more quotes, yet you prove yourself to be a forum hero rather than a thinker.
You would do better to read some Noam Chomsky.

Even better take a break from your "know it all" quotes and step into reality..

Regards

Cheers

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_

I see Tyson has deserted this joyless thread

Yes he is down at the valley buying undersize and inappropriate underwear for a man of his stature.

Interesting points.... sorry I wasn't thinking about it cos I don't know how I can communicate with them. It's not because of language but how I can form strong bonds and work well together? Do you know what i mean? I mean do you have any idea how to make people who like me.

If you think that it's a silly questio, sorry about it. Please help me. Thanks

You have no idea how reassuring this post is, guys. Thanks heaps.

As a gay asian myself, I find these sorts of ads highly offensive, demoralising, and marginalising. I do think sometimes when people think they are not attracted to a race, they are in fact not attracted to the culture. I had many past experiences where one got to know me as a person and realised that I was as Aussie as the next guy and they subconsciously dropped their 'race coloured glasses' and found me attractive. After all, I don't think attraction is as 'hard coded' as everyone seems to think. There was a time in history when large people were considered attractive and how many times have we found someone not our type but once their personality shines through, you started finding them attractive? I think physical attraction is a conditioned and reinforced behaviour.

When I see ads like the ones you described, no matter how strong I am as a person, it sends the message that I am utterly undesirable. Thank god my boyfriend thinks the opposite (you do know that many Asians look at least 10 to 15 years younger than their biological age, right?). When people keep reinforcing a particular ideal time and time again and you don't fit into that ideal by a long mile, your self-esteem slowly gets chipped away. Even worse, I can't ever change my ethnicity, so I have felt at times in the past as though I was consigned to a lifetime of physical undesirability. Fortunately, over the years, there are also people with substance like you who come with a lot less prejudice - and for that, I am very thankful.

very well said. I love it.

I'm asian and I've a lot of these people (who puts on their profile "no asian") messaged me haha
TBH, I have to agree, even some of the asians here are racist towards their own kind .. sigh =[