Ok, so I was having a 'conversation' about the definition of lesbian sex, and basically hit a brick wall on both our parts..

What is your definition of sex? - Gay, lesbian, straight.. The rest?

I'm in need of further clarification Dash.

Do you mean, like, how do you know that sex has occurred as opposed to extended foreplay or whatever?

Yeah, like what do you define as actual sex?

Fuck this is a tough one. Personally, I tend to define it by penetration. But obviously there are a lot of things that don't actually include that which I would arguably still consider sex, especially when you're talking about lesbians or S+M type relationships. You couldn't even really define it by orgasm either because we all know that doesn't have to occur for things to be considered sexual.

Keep in mind that I'm trying to steer clear of the wishy-washy answer of 'Whatever two consenting people consider to be sex within the boundaries or dynamics of their relationship'. Because be that as it may I'm not in that kind of mood today

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash80

Yeah, like what do you define as actual sex?

Mutual consensual, trusting and pleasurable contact physically (obviously), emotionally and intellectually between two people.

Sorry Biflab, but I find that so faffy and inclusive as to be a bit of a nothing statement.

I mean, my partner and I can have a lovely conversation while I rub her back, and we can both feel great about one-another afterwards, but there is nothing there to suggest we've just had sex, even though it fits all your discriptors.

Conversely, I could have a bed-breaking, wild, juicy encounter with somebody I just met and I would very much consider it sex, even though by your definition it isn't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar Wench

Fuck this is a tough one. Personally, I tend to define it by penetration. But obviously there are a lot of things that don't actually include that which I would arguably still consider sex, especially when you're talking about lesbians or S+M type relationships. You couldn't even really define it by orgasm either because we all know that doesn't have to occur for things to be considered .

Is that digital penetration only? And orgasms for both? The definition is so hard to pinpoint.

There is love making, sure. But sex is different to that as well, as is fucking..

See?! It's so hard to define..

And what if there are no orgasms at all, does that still mean sex?!?

Quote:

Is that digital penetration only?

No specifics, just something inserted into a hole, to be blunt.

Ahaha

I see..

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkin

And what if there are no orgasms at all, does that still mean sex?!?

Of course. Having sex purely for the sake of orgasm is just a recipe for disappointment, imho.

It's not all about the orgasm tho

We could be here forever trying to nut this out.

Fine by me

Quote:

Originally Posted by linkin

It's not all about the orgasm tho

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar Wench

You couldn't even really define it by orgasm either because we all know that doesn't have to occur for things to be considered sexual.

Turn up your hearing aid, love

And then there are the girls that don't like penetration as well.

There must be so many different types of definitions.

When does foreplay stop & sex begin?

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Originally Posted by Bar Wench

Turn up your hearing aid, love

Oooooer!!! ZING

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Originally Posted by Dash80

When does foreplay stop & sex begin?

And when does fooling around turn into foreplay..?!

So many things to define!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dash80

When does foreplay stop & sex begin?

I am pretty much convinced that this is undefinable. For me, if you have been with somebody a while you know full well when you are going to have sex. For example, I had one partner who would not kiss with tongue unless she felt like screwing. For others it may be a change in pace, breathing etc. Once again I go back to my (albeit, lacking) description of the threshold being crossed by the act of penetration. Obviously if my partner didn't enjoy that it would be an equivalent act such as oral sex.

Oh, you are such a confuser Dash!

I suggest we do some field research...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bar Wench

I am pretty much convinced that this is undefinable. For me, if you have been with somebody a while you know full well when you are going to have sex. For example, I had one partner who would not kiss with tongue unless she felt like screwing. For others it may be a change in pace, breathing etc.

touché...

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling

I suggest we do some field research...

Oh, that sounds like a fund-worthy thesis subject! I've found my life's calling!

I'm interested to hear your opinion on this subject inkling, witty one-liners aside... You seem like a bit of a thinker.

Haha ok I'll bite. How could I not, after such a flattering (if not a little misguided) comment?

In my humble opinion, fucking, love making and everything in between constitute sex. I have been barely touched and had the best sex of my life, and I have been fucked to within an inch of my life and had nothing much to say about it afterwards.

Personally, I guess up until now I have always considered fucking to be penetration because that's my personal thing. Maybe also because I am not a huge fan of receiving oral sex. Giving it on the other hand..... But I digress. I am very confused about this whole argument!! I think anything where pants are off is heading in the right direction.

Crap now I don't know. But I know whatever it is I need some.

Quote:

Originally Posted by inkling

Crap now I don't know. But I know whatever it is I need some.

On that, I heartily concur. This celebacy thing is prone to making me quite testy.

Aaaah but what if one parties' pants are still firmly on...?

And does just the touch of another in 'that way' constitue the onset of foreplay...?!

I guess so, if by saying 'that way' you are acknowledging there is a clear intent to esculate things. Whether it's reciprocated is where that argument is lost or won.

And as for the clothing thing, well I guess it's much easier to shag if you've taken it off. But I don't always like to do that because it keeps a sense of naughtiness. If you were stone butch you would probably feel more comfortable with your pants on too. Btw, is that term still de rigeur these days?

I am slightly intoxicated and therefore probably not very profound but:
Is it perhaps the intention to give or obtain orgasm. Not so much if it occurs or not, but that the intent is there. Foreplay you're not trying to make the other person come, it's enjoying eachother blah blah. However, when you have sex external/internal clitoral/vaginal etc etc the intention is to orgasm.

That is a very good point, Carmen. I had never considered that before now. Hmmm....