I went to the Clarence Hotel at Petersham last night to see if their revival of the legendary 'Caesars' was any better than the shambles it was on opening night.

On opening night I went along very excited that Caesars was back and also that finally there was Gay venue for regular Gays in the inner west. There'd been talk about a lot of work done to the 'Mannacle' room to ready it for its new incarnation so I was expecting a bright, fresh, accessible look.

That was the first disappointment. Walking into 'Caesars' (and they really shouldn't be able to call it that, they've done such a half-arsed attempt) I immediately noticed one thing: it was still 'Manacle'. That is - it is still like walking into a filthy dungeon. It looks like a sex-on-premises venue inthe bowels of Darlinghurst. Which was fine when it actually was 'Manacle'. But as 'Caeasars' it is completely wrong.

The second thing was the bar staff. They were snooty and unfriendly - again, the complete opposite of Caesers. I was curious about this so I asked oneof them - the bottom line is that they don't like working there when the venue is 'Caesars'. They are leather/fetish people and are not happy that the Clarence Hotel isn't Manacle anymore. And that attitude pervades all their dealings with customers and provides yet another downer on the whole night.

Last night, some four weeks later, I walked in again with fingers crossed. Perhaps the Clarence Hotel had just needed time to remove the sleaxy, sex-on-premises decor? Nope, it was all still there. It was fascinating to watch the looks on the faces of people who were there for the first time - a kind of bemusement / shock at the decor and particularly the giant spider-web chain that's still in place and was a trademark of Manacle. I noticed a few people come in, do a spin around the venue a couple of times and leave. I noticed the same thing on the first night.

The first night was packed, as opening nights always are. But last night I noticed there was a significant reduction in the number of people attending. As if the word has spread: 'Caesars ain't Caesars - it's just Manacle with a drag show'.

The music, whilst providing an occasional recognisable highlight, was mostly the generic crap that's played in any Oxford Street venue. So much for chanelling the music style that was a key element of the original Caesars!

4 weeks in pretty much nothing had changed: surly bar staff, a filthy dungeon atmosphere, generic dance/r&b musak and of course, the ATM still isn't working.

The front bar of the Clarence is completely wasted. On opening night there were a stack of punters and not enough bar staff to serve them. That situation was reversed last night - enough bar staff but not enough punters. No attempt had been made to give the front bar the Caesars 'vibe'. The TVs were showing Idi Amin's brutal regime and people having their heads blown off. The TVs in the 'Manacle' room were showing advertisements for various products and services including the upcoming 'Chunky' Bears night that's displacing Caesars next Saturday night. The retro TV/movie/pop vision that marked at least one incarnation of Caesars was nowhere to be seen.

It seems to me the problem is this: The owners of the Clarence desperately want their venue to be 'Manacle' - a sleazy, leather/fetish/bear venue. It didn't work as that and they are bitter. They have reluctantly taken on the 'Caesars' nights because they were losing money handover foot. But they've no intention of actually becoming an accessible, everyone's welcome kind of Gay venue.

I was advised last night that the Manacle room decor is staying exactly as it is. I wonder how long it will be before crowds dwindle to a point where someone says 'well, the Caesars thing didn't work?'

Are there no Gay venue owners/potential Gay venue owners out there that have a clue? There's money to be made, big money for someone who gets an inner-west Gay venue right. Money from people who will come from Penrith to Mosman - and many of them the type that wouldn't visit Oxford Street venues in a pink fit because they're looking for something different - something with a completely different vibe and no-attitude. They're not looking for a half-arsed sleazy dungeon at Petersham with crazp musak and petulant bar staff.

So, I've officially given up on 'Caesars' and am now waiting to see what the brand new Imperial will bring the inner west Gay scene?

And, in the meantime, a desperate shout out to potential Gay venue owners out there: if you want to make a crapload of money, do a 'Ceasars' type venue properly and you'll have people lining up to give you their heard earned money.

But do it half-arsed like The Clarence and you'll get a short term boost in profits and then fade away.

Oh a P.S. - Thanks to Sandy Bottom and her performers for at least giving us a series of daggy drag-shows which definitely do channel that old Caesars vibe. Sandy, if only you could take your knowledge and experience to a venue that is run by people with a brain!

I have to agree that it does seem like the venue is just taking the names and branding of previous successful gay clubs/events and trying to use it to get the people in. There's no point just stealing a name without changing the whole experience

Thanks for that.

I'm sick for gay venues expoiting our loyalty.
Whether it is Shad and his new 'beer-barn' at the Imperial or The Clarence.

Gay venues need a big kick up the arse.... we are often made to feel bad because we don't support them, but they are sowing the seeds of their own demise.


For example - in the past decade there's been a move to outdoor drinking, and more food. There is NO gay venue with a nice beer garden or balcony (the Oxford's yobbo-full one doesn't count).


As the the Imperial, there is no way Shad can get the numbers he needs without getting a significant straight audience through the door. It will simply become a new Bank Hotel.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolboy jackson

Yes my ideal is those spacious german beer gardens where there is sunshine, spaciousness and sensuous men. A pool would be good too (says Poolboy).

It's quite sad that the 'straights' have taken the lead on this.

The fact that the MG pool party is going to be held at The Ivy is vomit inducing.


Alot of gay men love fitness - and semi-nudity... why not a gay bar near a beach, why doesn't The Taxi have a gym?

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolboy jackson

Yes. Tourists come half way round the world for our climate, and all the gay meeting places are dark, noisy and cramped.

We get that from our UK and US friends.... gay bars and the concept of darkrooms.

But we don't have darkrooms - we have sex-on-premises venues.
We also have gaydar too - people dont meet eachother for sex anymore.




We should learn from gay areas in Spain, Greece and South America.... we largely have their climate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolboy jackson

darkrooms as if we are ashamed of ourselves and our bodies

I think they were dark becuase guys don't wanna know the guy sucking them off.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by guru_g

I went to the Clarence Hotel at Petersham last night to see if their revival of the legendary 'Caesars' was any better than the shambles it was on opening night.

On opening night I went along very excited that Caesars was back and also that finally there was Gay venue for regular Gays in the inner west. There'd been talk about a lot of work done to the 'Mannacle' room to ready it for its new incarnation so I was expecting a bright, fresh, accessible look.

That was the first disappointment. Walking into 'Caesars' (and they really shouldn't be able to call it that, they've done such a half-arsed attempt) I immediately noticed one thing: it was still 'Manacle'. That is - it is still like walking into a filthy dungeon. It looks like a sex-on-premises venue inthe bowels of Darlinghurst. Which was fine when it actually was 'Manacle'. But as 'Caeasars' it is completely wrong.

The second thing was the bar staff. They were snooty and unfriendly - again, the complete opposite of Caesers. I was curious about this so I asked oneof them - the bottom line is that they don't like working there when the venue is 'Caesars'. They are leather/fetish people and are not happy that the Clarence Hotel isn't Manacle anymore. And that attitude pervades all their dealings with customers and provides yet another downer on the whole night.

Last night, some four weeks later, I walked in again with fingers crossed. Perhaps the Clarence Hotel had just needed time to remove the sleaxy, sex-on-premises decor? Nope, it was all still there. It was fascinating to watch the looks on the faces of people who were there for the first time - a kind of bemusement / shock at the decor and particularly the giant spider-web chain that's still in place and was a trademark of Manacle. I noticed a few people come in, do a spin around the venue a couple of times and leave. I noticed the same thing on the first night.

The first night was packed, as opening nights always are. But last night I noticed there was a significant reduction in the number of people attending. As if the word has spread: 'Caesars ain't Caesars - it's just Manacle with a drag show'.

The music, whilst providing an occasional recognisable highlight, was mostly the generic crap that's played in any Oxford Street venue. So much for chanelling the music style that was a key element of the original Caesars!

4 weeks in pretty much nothing had changed: surly bar staff, a filthy dungeon atmosphere, generic dance/r&b musak and of course, the ATM still isn't working.

The front bar of the Clarence is completely wasted. On opening night there were a stack of punters and not enough bar staff to serve them. That situation was reversed last night - enough bar staff but not enough punters. No attempt had been made to give the front bar the Caesars 'vibe'. The TVs were showing Idi Amin's brutal regime and people having their heads blown off. The TVs in the 'Manacle' room were showing advertisements for various products and services including the upcoming 'Chunky' Bears night that's displacing Caesars next Saturday night. The retro TV/movie/pop vision that marked at least one incarnation of Caesars was nowhere to be seen.

It seems to me the problem is this: The owners of the Clarence desperately want their venue to be 'Manacle' - a sleazy, leather/fetish/bear venue. It didn't work as that and they are bitter. They have reluctantly taken on the 'Caesars' nights because they were losing money handover foot. But they've no intention of actually becoming an accessible, everyone's welcome kind of Gay venue.

I was advised last night that the Manacle room decor is staying exactly as it is. I wonder how long it will be before crowds dwindle to a point where someone says 'well, the Caesars thing didn't work?'

Are there no Gay venue owners/potential Gay venue owners out there that have a clue? There's money to be made, big money for someone who gets an inner-west Gay venue right. Money from people who will come from Penrith to Mosman - and many of them the type that wouldn't visit Oxford Street venues in a pink fit because they're looking for something different - something with a completely different vibe and no-attitude. They're not looking for a half-arsed sleazy dungeon at Petersham with crazp musak and petulant bar staff.

So, I've officially given up on 'Caesars' and am now waiting to see what the brand new Imperial will bring the inner west Gay scene?

And, in the meantime, a desperate shout out to potential Gay venue owners out there: if you want to make a crapload of money, do a 'Ceasars' type venue properly and you'll have people lining up to give you their heard earned money.

But do it half-arsed like The Clarence and you'll get a short term boost in profits and then fade away.

Oh a P.S. - Thanks to Sandy Bottom and her performers for at least giving us a series of daggy drag-shows which definitely do channel that old Caesars vibe. Sandy, if only you could take your knowledge and experience to a venue that is run by people with a brain!

here here! It is awful - and the condoms and shit at the front of the dance bar are just wrong. nothing like Caesars. its just a sleazy dirty hole. I walked out after 20mins shaking my head

I have been twice. Opening night I excused the unpreparedness but halloween night was terrible. They billed it as a halloween party but there were only about half a dozen people dressed up. Not even the staff made an effort. It is a shame cause I do seem to be prettier at the clarence than I do at other venues.

It has the potential to be fun- but it seems lazy and disorganised, and like no one really knows what the fuck is going on.
The front bar- seems busier than the warddrobe with a bar in it, they are referring to as Caesers

It's a shame cos I went there a few weeks- and the front bar had all these hot guys in it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camiseta

I have been twice. Opening night I excused the unpreparedness but halloween night was terrible. They billed it as a halloween party but there were only about half a dozen people dressed up. Not even the staff made an effort. It is a shame cause I do seem to be prettier at the clarence than I do at other venues.

Exactly- they said there would be door prizes- and a complete halloween party.
It was about as exciting as watching the meat tray's fester at your local R.S.L= but atleast at the R.S.L - the men are dressed better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camiseta

I have been twice. Opening night I excused the unpreparedness but halloween night was terrible. They billed it as a halloween party but there were only about half a dozen people dressed up. Not even the staff made an effort. It is a shame cause I do seem to be prettier at the clarence than I do at other venues.

Interestingly when I was there on Saturday night I noticed that the halloween decorations were still up. Maybe they intend to leave them there ready for the Caesars burial party.

I can't believe they are going to start having a door charge, who would pay? atleast caesars was free.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dsquare

Interestingly when I was there on Saturday night I noticed that the halloween decorations were still up. Maybe they intend to leave them there ready for the Caesars burial party.

I'll bring a mirror ball for when we dance on it's grave.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Light-Bearer

I'll bring a mirror ball for when we dance on it's grave.

Well if what I saw on Saturday night is anything to go by it will be the first dancing at the new Caesars.


They could call it the "I Come To bury Caesar Not To Praise Him Party". Or perhaps "Fuck tu Brute".

I really hate that in this climate I have to bag a venue so badly.
So here are the positives.
It's nice that there is a gay venue out in that area.
BUT- (here are the negatives)
Seriously - why bother.
If you're gonna do a half assed job- you may as well do no job at all.
No ones gonna thank you and you're just wasting your time.

Not that far from the Clarence is another establishment called Red Rattler.
Innovative, refreshing and daring. So great is the environment - that everytime I have gone there, some lesbian has baked some organic cake and is handing out pieces.
Pretty sweet don't you think?

To go to place, that provides top notch entertainment and is so friendly, not only do people talk to you, but random lesbian's hand you baked goods.

The Clarence could learn a great deal from the kids that run that place.

Having not been to Caesers, I do think the Clarence is a great venue.

I hope something sticks it out at the Clarence as it's round the corner from where I'll be staying in Sydney in a coupla months.

So it better wanna get good, I don't like going to the strip. Unless it Palms .. then it's acceptable.

I also loved Manacle when it was there. I looked like a bit of an idiot as I'm not much of a leather wearer when I am out and I did have my bestie with me who is a bit of a lipstick lesbian but everyone was always really friendly. ... I loved it

Friend of mine is organising a birthday get together this weekend and said to me last night 'now, despite what you wrote about Caesars, do you wanna go there on Saturday night for my birthday?'

I was gobsmacked!

"No bloody way," I said, "Think of somewhere else!"

So it looks like we'll be heading to Palms on Saturday night instead. Just gotta make sure we get there before the fake queue starts!

And as far as the half-arsed Caesars is concerned...... 'you are dead to me now!'

Quote:

Originally Posted by poolboy jackson

This Saturday is Chunky! — lots of nice men and ME

I totally agree there. Go to CHUNKY. Really friendly and lots of fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lukehuggett

I totally agree there. Go to CHUNKY. Really friendly and lots of fun.

Chunky is not quite my scene A friend is actually DJing at Chunky this Saturday night and was on at me to come along but....yeah, don't like The Clarence and 'Chunky', while being a great party night, isn't my thing.

I did hear that the last one was totally packed in both bars though. Those Bears certainly know how to organise things.

(Must be about the only time Clarence is ever packed!)

The Clarence's Caesars show is on at the new look Taxi this Saturday night. It's a one night only gig

Hey Guy's,

After a friend told me to have a look at one of the forum posts on same same, I thought I should put my two cents worth in while the fire is still hot.

As I am the promoter and manager of this event, I thought I should shed some light on the whole Caesars thing, and trust me your thoughts and idea's have shed a whole new light on events.

Firstly we do not charge at the door, nor will we if I have my way. But somewhere renovations, changes and other alterations will need to be paid for.

If you want to have that smoking deck that no other venue has, we need money. Plans have already been looked over to have the hotel alterated with a new outdoor area. But without fee's and charges, there is only enough money to pay the bills and lack of support will sure to see that this will never happen.

The Caesars bar - (previously Manacle bar) before opening night has had a lot of changes to the venue.

It has a full stage (which never had previously)- audio and visual system upgrade, New furniture and fixings, and overall clean up. Because this space is being used by other social groups through the week such as UBER, it was decided to leave the chain in the venue. I have already started plans to redecorate the venue, but considering we have only been open for only a few weeks, this does take time and money.
And some one has to pay the daggy show girls . (perhaps you should give it a go - and well see how you look daggy in some heels also).



(While im heated on that ....... There is only a few major show bars left in Sydney with girls. The Taxi club, Stonewall and Midnight Shift. If you consider our shows not up to standard, then perhaps visit them, as I have been doing this for years and make a living from it, so I must be doing something right. And for such a Daggy show - we have recieved four bookings from corporate customers - perhaps they have more respect..... Now cool down )
(sorry about that but when you get me warmed up I have to let it fly)


This venue has been open for over 12 months as a leather bar, in light of this I suspect that even being a gay bar in the Inner West, not anyone from this Forum actually supported it at a regular time. The venue has offered entertainment for more that 12 months, yet once again, I suspect you would retreat to your liking of Oxford St, where you would put up with a venue with smelly carpets, dirty smoking rooms and wet floors.

(What was the last time you considered coming to the only regular live singing caberet show (for free) on a thursday night and have a bit of a laugh and sing along. (or is that too much)

The changes that have been taken into Caesars Bar is gradual, I have invested a lot of my own money and time into transforming a cold mens space to a warm environment that isn't judgmental, that doesn't need attitude like oxford st, that means you can wear leather, or a dress.

But thus in saying this, if you come with high expectations of a five star night club, leave it at the door. We are trying to be a place that all ages, all walks of life come, for a bit of hands up music, relaxation and a good time.

Over the next few weeks, there will be more alterations to the venue, to lighten up the room increase the feel of Caesars and generate a greater venue. But if people don't support it, then how could I be expected to waist my time and money on a few personalities that feel there owed a favor.

I don't believe in giving something you cant maintain, But it is clean and friendly, thus I know that the Caesars bar is a bit drab, and consider that the front bar needs more Caesars vibe.

These things do take time and will be fixed as measures are currently in action, and I guarantee you that your bar will be here in 10 years from now, just just a flash in the pan by a few that want a run down pub or club that does charge like most other straight owned venues.

To be honest, if you have to retreat your idea's and complaining to a forum and don't have the guts to speak to me myself and express your idea's then perhaps you should run your own venue.

The Clarence Hotel isnt a sleazy venue, that you will find in Oxford street, and thus I still work in the city in all venues I feel I have the right to say that. If you would like some changes, put your money on the table, or email me some idea's.

I'm not here to shoot down your idea's, concepts or point of view, Im here to offer you something that no other gay owned and operated venue has in the inner west. ( Oh that's right we are the only one). But to take your idea's and make it only better.

So if I was you, get your brains together drop me a email at sandy@bottompromo.com and tell me what you want or we can do better, and for once perhaps I will be the only one that will listen.

XX Sandy Bottom

I'm wit' you Sandy.

What is it with people in our community who rather than stand up and do something to assist filling the void that is real, when it comes to a spread of the 'right' venues, they chose to go out of their way to make it more difficult than it already is.

They should assist just a little, even just staying neutral and not publicly commenting negatively would be a plus. We are all in difficult times and getting the right combination is crucial, everyone can play a part in getting it right. We can all benefit from that.

That's my twenty cents worth..

I with you Jo,

Thanks for your support, at least we know the effects of just damming rambles from the community.
I believe to stand up, say what you want and enjoy what a wonderful community we have. But in most support it, dont just complain, get involved, make a difference and dont point.
I didn't happen to mention that Caesars is going stronger than before, and that our happy customers only have fun. I also know the Taxi Club is going to go off this Saturday Night - Especially with the fantastic new furniture and look and hospitality.

Another survivor that has lasted longer than any attitude night club or pub in Oxford Street Ever.

Must be doing something right.
XX Sandy

When it was first advertised, I remember reading numerous invites on Facebook and other media, enticing party-goers to 'come and see the new Ceasars' - not to 'come and see the new Ceasars that is actually Manacle and will start to resemble something like the former Ceasars after we get some cash together which won't happen whilst we're offering free entry'.

I'm not condemning anyone's efforts, but I do condemn slapping an extremely reputable brand of a former nightclub on an existing one, in an attempt to goad people into attending. I think that is what people are upset about, and rightly so. I applaud the effort that has gone into creating a gay venue in the inner west, and I don't know where the owner's heads are at or what their plans for the future are, but if you advertise something and don't deliver, people have a right to feel let down due to your false advertising.

And before we start debating the wording and technicalities of the advertising, it read and interpreted as "come on down to the new Ceasars, as it used to be in the good old days". That was the reaction you were after and the sole purpose of slapping the Ceasars' brand all over it. If it's not anything like how Ceasars used to be, and more like Manacle-with-a-stage, then that was pretty sneaky. I mean they left the chain out? C'mon...

O.K., I admit to being one of the people bagging out the new "Caesars", but from what I saw on my only visit there last Saturday night it was rather dismal. I will say however that I don't have any issue with the web, in fact I was rather glad to see the dear old thing.

To be honest what I was expecting was something similar to the old Manacle day club (but at night), and I do think that would be great if they could get it happening. But for whatever reason it seems that people just aren't taking to it. Whether it's the venue, the location, the music, whatever, I don't know, but whatever it is it ain't working. By the time I left at around 12.45 there were maybe a dozen people there, and it was emptying out quickly. Maybe given time it will catch on and become the venue I think it has the potential to be, but I worry that unless something changes pretty quickly it will be gone before that can happen.

Anyway, I suppose I haven't really said anything very constructive, just my rambled thoughts. It's been a long day .

Quote:

Originally Posted by naughtylion

I'm not condemning anyone's efforts, but I do condemn slapping an extremely reputable brand of a former nightclub on an existing one, in an attempt to goad people into attending. I think that is what people are upset about, and rightly so. I applaud the effort that has gone into creating a gay venue in the inner west, and I don't know where the owner's heads are at or what their plans for the future are, but if you advertise something and don't deliver, people have a right to feel let down due to your false advertising.

And before we start debating the wording and technicalities of the advertising, it read and interpreted as "come on down to the new Ceasars, as it used to be in the good old days". That was the reaction you were after and the sole purpose of slapping the Ceasars' brand all over it. If it's not anything like how Ceasars used to be, and more like Manacle-with-a-stage, then that was pretty sneaky. I mean they left the chain out? C'mon...

I totally concur.

Sandy is living in fantasy island with her comments about the venue as it is now.

It IS a SLEAZY DUNGEON.

The bar staff in the Caesars (Manacle) Room ARE rude and disinterested.

Nobody said anything about a smoking deck or an outdoor area. Those ideas are totally irrelevant to the original post.

Nobody in the general Gay community supported Manacle because it is a fetish venue - a sleazy, dirty dive for Gay men that want to dress in rubber and leather and get down, dirty and filthy with other likeminded guys. The people in the front bar of Caesars were always primarily the pre-Manacle crowd and they scared the crap out of a lot of 'ordinary Gays' who are desperate for a decent inner west venue.

Let me be quite clear on this: If the Clarence Hotel had opened a Gay venue in the inner west with the current entertainment in the front bar and a normal 'club/showroom' in the main room, it would have been supported for the last year. People are crying out for something to go to in the Inner West.

They are NOT crying out for a sleazy, dirty, virtual-sex-on-premises dungeon with chains and Tom of Finland-type pictures on the walls.

Nobody asked for 5-star club. They just don't want the sleazy, dirty, fetish atmosphere that pervades the main room of the Clarence.

It is so sad that the Clarence owners - and you as the promoter - can't see that. It is so sad that you really think you can have it both ways. The main room needed to be gutted of all the sleazy, fetishy Manacle stuff and repainted in a lighter colour. That's it! No million dollar renovation, no smoking deck, no patio with 5 star service - just remove all the sleaze from the Manacle room and repaint it brighter - how difficult would that have been?

While I understand you are upset with the criticism, there's no point coming on here and pretending that The Clarence Hotel's Caesars/Manacle is something it isn't. False advertising is one thing but setting people up for disappointment is even worse.

We need a fun, relaxed, clean and no-attitude venue in the Inner West. The Clarence Hotel could have been that venue but the owners wanted the fetish/leather/bear crowd and they can't let go of that concept. Otherwise the Manacle room would not still be exactly as it is. It isn't a question of money, it is a question of choice. We're talking Bunnings, not A.V. Jennings.

The bar staff told me on Saturday night that the room is staying as it is. Yes you might put a few more lights in, a pot plant here and there - but it will still be a dirty dungeon because the owners of The Clarence want it to stay that way.

It's really sad but it is their choice. They seriously could make a fortune with that venue but they just can't let go of 'Manacle'. They were told what they had to do to make Caesars work before it opened - there's obviously been a meeting where they said 'yeah, well let's do a bit of it but there's no way we're gonna change the Manacle room or let go of the fetish/leather crowd/' Again, that's their choice but please don't come on here and pretend otherwise.

Finally, regarding the drag shows - my comments were a compliment. The shows I've seen are daggy...and that's fabulous. They're fun and frivolous and and fantastic and even slightly amateur at times...and I loved it, loved it, loved it. Now that's something that's totally in keeping with the real 'Caesars'.

Just as a side note I'd like to add that I have absolutely nothing against dirty, sleazy, leather or fetish venues. And the more 'sex-on-premisis'ish they are, the better.

I was only commenting on the venue, and how people believe to be not what was advertised - and thats all I have a problem with.

Personally, I like the chain. The chain is cute. But the chain is SO manacle I would have thought they would have put it away, thats all.

guru-g I think you're being a bit harsh on the owners of the Clarence. They were the guys who ran the old Manacle, and moved to Petersham when they were kicked out of the Taylor Square venue. The original intention was to recreate the original Manacle, aimed at the old Manacle regulars. So suggesting they should have opened up a different type of venue in the first place if they wanted to attract a more diverse crowd is a bit of a falacious argument. The initial intention was never to appeal to a more diverse crowd.

I'm not sure I agree with your "dirty, sleezy, virtual-sex-on-premises dungeon" description either. Sure, it's dark, and the web is there (there's that bloody web again), but I certainly didn't find it to be dirty or have a sleezy feel about it. And as for fetish, surely that's more down to the crowd than the venue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by naughtylion

Just as a side note I'd like to add that I have absolutely nothing against dirty, sleazy, leather or fetish venues. And the more 'sex-on-premisis'ish they are, the better.

I was only commenting on the venue, and how people believe to be not what was advertised - and thats all I have a problem with.

Personally, I like the chain. The chain is cute. But the chain is SO manacle I would have thought they would have put it away, thats all.

Totally correct - dirty, sleazy, SOP venues were there at the beginning of the commercial Gay scene and they will be there til the end! If that ever comes! And while it might horrify some straight people, I'm glad they're there because there's a part of the community that really need/benefit from them.

But that vibe is not 'Caesars'. A gazillion people came to the 3 incarnations of 'Caesars' for the opposite of that vibe. They came because it was camp, fun, no-attitude, friendly and because you could have a damn good time there week after week without any hassle.

Caesars was an alternative to the Oxford Street attitude/music/paradigm. It had friendly and welcoming bar staff, the drinks were reasonably priced, it had no cover charge, it had friendly security personnel - you actually felt welcome there. You felt that the bar staff/management actually wanted you to be there.

That total package that Caesars provided saw people coming from all over greater Sydney week after week. So many of them had not been to a Gay venue in eons - they'd given up on Oxford Street years ago. They came out again because Caesars was so different to everything else. They weren't judged on their looks or their abs or how cool their clothes were, they were just accepted as part of the crowd. It sounds simple but it was actually magic. Palms is the nearest equivalent but even that isn't telling the whole story.

Keep every part of the commercial Gay scene, I say. Including bars for bears, shops for toys and backrooms for cruising, leather 'mens' bars etc. etc. There's a lot of diversity in the Gay community and it needs to be catered for.

In my dreams, the owners of the Clarence Hotel would be able to rent premises in or very close to Oxford Street for a new, new Manacle - because the crowd that loved Manacle when it was at Taylor Square still need a venue like that. But it has to be attached to Oxford Street. That crowd won't travel to Petersham.

If the owners could do that, then perhaps they could let 'Caesars' be 'Caesars' if you know what I mean. Yes it sad that the Manacle crowd didn't follow them to Petersham but they just won't. So go to Plan #2: a venue for the rest of the Gay community. But do it properly.

The reason I wrote the original post was because I was so passionate about what had been done/not done in the name of 'Caesars' by the owners of the Clarence. I've been waiting for a venue like this to come back to the inner west for years. I'd be there every weekend if it did. I know a few people who, like me, were really looking forward to The Clarence being a 'normal' Gay pub. I want to spend my money there! I want the owners to 'see the light' so they can start making a motza instead of losing it.

We've all tried the Clarence multiple times over the last year or so but it was always so uncomfortable because of the fetish crowd that dominated the place. No disrespect to them, like I said before, they need a venue too! But they need one in town, not at Petersham.

It was so unhappy-making to be at the Clarence/Ceasars on 2 Saturday nights and see so many people come in, walk around, look confused/bemused/annoyed and then leave again. Wouldn't it be great if there was a venue where they came in and thought 'yeah, love it, I'm partying here tonight.'