24th March 2010, 12:12 AM #1
dying of severe jetlag
Tim's Comments - commenting on them
Okay, I see you are the co-founder and owner - I got a print out from an info broker through ASIC which had about 6 Directors names and addresses. So I thought they owned it, not you. Maybe it's more complex than that.
The reason is only because it is really difficult to know who to address complaints to in order to get effective action. So that's cleared up.
SameSame is not self moderated. Self moderation is when one or more members see that another member has gone too far/broken the rules/is about to bring the community into disrepute...and actually does something about it.
No-one does that on SameSame. You have a core "clique" of posters who talk to each other - and sometimes post things that SameSame/Sound Alliance should not be wanting their advertisers to see on this site - and everybody else (who doesn't get disillusioned and cancel their account) is fair game.
I've reported multiple posts that clearly breach your own guidelines. Not borderline cases - just black and white examples - and you do nothing about those posts. They stay on the Forums.
When I initially asked for help from some of the most vile insults made against a member of these Forums, I got a snappy, rude email back which was no help at all. In effect blaming me. That is not how you moderate a forum.
I'm only talking about me at the moment - but when you look at the wider problems, it all starts with a lack of moderation'. Even some of the "humorous comments" made by LB etc., are so foul that are indefensible against the telecommunications act and to the broader general public. Plus, how would certain conservative image-conscious advertisers feel about being confronted with their logo placement again some of the posts I am talking about. It's an open forum - anyone can see these posts, they are not locked off from the general public.
The ACON/BGF mega-fights are the symptom, not the disease. The disease is the lack of moderation on SameSame Forums - all of them. If you do not have the time to moderate the forum properly, what about appointing a 'panel of trusted helper/moderators.' to take the pressure off of SameSame's staff? It's been done very successfully all over the world. The key is choosing the correct people that aren't part of the existing problem.
SameSame has 6 (I think) directors who are legally responsible for anything that happens on this site. I don't know who they are but surely they would not be happy about certain incidents and posts on the site being seen in Gay press, Daily Telegraph, sent to key advertisers and so on? If the posts I'm talking about were held under the light of say Channel 7, Channel 9, Daily Tele...even Star Observer/SX...it could ruin your business.
To give you a mild example: there's a popular thread about a 40ish year old man chasing a teenage boy who he didn't even know was Gay initially. It goes on for pages. Just take that one thread and hold it up against community standards, Government standards, good business standards. What would the media and wider general public make of that complete thread? And that's just one mild example.
I don't believe you should be warning JUST these "new posters" you refer to whilst protecting the ("old") people deliberately stir up trouble around these "new posters."
But those rules are never adhered to, never administered and implemented by SameSame staff. When a forum member goes feral and starts hurling abusive language at another forum member..(1) reporting the post doesn't work because nothing is done..but (2) it should never get to that stage - as soon as the "shit hits the fan", there need to be people there who calmly step in, remove offensive/defamatory material and calmly remind everyone of the the Community rules.
You talk about 100s of posts you have deleted - but see, that's the thing: you do that in a completely inconsistent basis. Each member of the forum needs to be treated fairly and equally by the owners/operators of SameSame. Otherwise there is no privilege in posting on the forums.
I now have several months experience of seeing what does get cut and what doesn't, when you or the other guys step in and (mostly) when you don't. And it is always done to protect a small, clique-ish group of SameSame members at the expense of everyone else. There is no consistency, no fairness.
In my case, it took me two faxes, 3 PMs, several post reports and an express post letter - and still the offensive and defamatory language was not removed. I simply received a bitchy email / PM back from Christian saying "dont use our trademark again" whatever that meant.
Early on I was told by Christian dismissively "We have appropriate systems in place." Yes, you do but you never use them! What is the point of having rules that aren't enforced and a "report post" button that isn't acted upon.
SameSame Forums has a relatively small bunch of regular posters - hundreds of others have come and gone. Consider the potential size of the market. Can you imagine how many more active members of the Forum there would be if the Community rules were actually enforced? So that there were no foul insults, defamatory comments, ganging-up, bullying allowed.
SameSame has no competition in this non-sexual, let's chat and be friends, space on the Australian internet. The Forums could be sooo much bigger.
More members....driving more hits....driving more business to SameSame...driving more hits into figures that can be quoted and sold to media-buyers/advertisers for higher rates.
Monitoring the forums properly would be a lot of work and I understand if you are short staffed - but consider the "panel of moderators" idea to take the pressure off you.
I was so excited to join SameSame...the philosophy, the community guidelines...it all sounded so wonderful. But I (and many others) have experienced that none of it is true.
How about restarting the clock and making it true. Instead of catering to a small group of "elite clique members" who are incapable of self-regulation, making SameSame Forums a safe place for everyone in the GLBTI communities?
I write this in good faith.
Last edited by guru_g: 24th March 2010 at 12:28 AM