Attraction is subjective, and I personally don't find the community quite as ostracising as you describe here.

But different strokes for different blokes, groups have sub-groups.

It will always be like highschool with the "beautiful" people, but we're all connected by our sexuality and the challenges that have come with it, and I have personally found that the colgate smile pretty boys can be just as accepting and best friends with the averagely built alternative boy down the road.

Your point is spot on, but it's not the rule, and it's certainly not exclusive to gay men. <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracon388

...It will always be like highschool ...

No it won't. I think people are just too afraid to step out of that mentality and just be genuine adults.

It isn't just gay men though. I know a lot of people who are too afraid to leave high school. Some of them are working at university

Same Same Media Player

it gets better - YouTube

errrr the straight culture is exactly the same and I doubt it will ever change.

Weathervain. That video was amazing

loved the article Christian.

and i agree, that video deserves a feature for itself.

Definitely agree with all that's been said about both. I must say that video is very empowering and I feel a little bit stronger myself having watched it!! Definitely going on my favourites list of vids on youtube.

I'm glad I live in Brisbane... I swear we see a much more diverse representation of gay culture up here... But to some extent if you live in Sydney, you to have accept thats the way it is... it's where all the kiddies struggling with their sexuality head to... a younger population is always going to obsess more about looks and all that! Plus who was it 10 years ago prancing about on the dancefloor looking down their noses at the older or less pretty ones... I suspect it may have been christian! I was certainly like that when I was young pretty and living in Sydney!

Good youtube!

Perhaps we should be helping the young to build resilience and self worth. You need both to survive what can seem to be a cruel world.
Lets face it the multi national corporations have a stranglehold on the world with their international advertising campaigns and branding, thats what it really comes down to, however if people are taught from a young age about self worth they can navigate through the vapidness of it all and come out the other side unscathed. It really can get better but not without self worth.

Isn't trying to change the images projected just flogging a dead horse? Its too late for that. No point in wrapping the kids in cotton wool. Let them fall over a few times so they will learn the way.
There is no point in trying to change the world, one must change the way one sees the world instead.
Travel the road lightly and have a laugh along the way.

A very balanced article. In my experience these people are either very shallow or have low intelligence levels, and their body obsession is used to hide that. Mainstream gay culture IS shallow and dumb though ( DNA magazine is the perfect example), so instead of getting angry about it, I ignore it. Younger guys coming out may or may not find their way- some will find their own identity and some won't. I don't know what the answer is to helping them get there.

good article

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmoodle

... however if people are taught from a young age about self worth ...

How do you teach self worth?

I agree with some points, but I dont have a problem with anyone being successful, fit, healthy and popular. I dont think people should be jealous of what they havent got. They should be using it as motivation to develop themselves. You have no right to tell someone that they are "too good" or "too perfect" because you dont know what personal demons they have faught in their own personal process. Pretty people dont always get their way - and often fight a lot harder to be respected as serious voices in the corporate world. Perhaps walk a mile in their shoes before you judge how easy it is to be this so called stereotype. Sadly, there are some people who do fit this mould, of vacuous, ego-maniac behaviour, but most of the people I have met who do semi-fit this mould are incredibly disciplined, hard working and deserve all the success they get.

On a second reading I have to say this is the best thing I've read article-wise on this site for months. I acknowledge TheOldie's gripe BUT in acknowledging it I choose to believe that us faggots need to strive to be ourselves outside of any premarketed-mold or expectation.

Also we should be much more active in rights, public prankstering and humour.

Gay means happy, right?

I don't see how the two topics - the It Gets Better Project and its messaging - and attractive personal trainer DJs who make you feel bad about yourself simply by being present at a club or on a mag - have anything to do with one another. The It Gets better Project features literally hundreds of thousands of personal accounts from real people with all different body shapes and types from all walks of life sharing their stories. The barstaff and backups at Nevermind represent one story of how it gets better (lots of today's beautiful people were the fat, bullied, miserable kids a few years ago who have worked hard to look and feel the way they do now). If pretty people make you feel bad about yourself, watch It Gets Better Project videos from people who don't and don't spend your time on the scene.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brodes13

I agree with some points, but I dont have a problem with anyone being successful, fit, healthy and popular. I dont think people should be jealous of what they havent got. They should be using it as motivation to develop themselves. You have no right to tell someone that they are "too good" or "too perfect" because you dont know what personal demons they have faught in their own personal process. Pretty people dont always get their way - and often fight a lot harder to be respected as serious voices in the corporate world. Perhaps walk a mile in their shoes before you judge how easy it is to be this so called stereotype. Sadly, there are some people who do fit this mould, of vacuous, ego-maniac behaviour, but most of the people I have met who do semi-fit this mould are incredibly disciplined, hard working and deserve all the success they get.

I agree with you Brodes. From living in gayland for nearly a decade, I have to say that I have seldom ever come across 'fit' and 'looker' guys who are really arrogant or nasty pieces of work. A lot of them are REALLY nice guys, who work hard and take care of themselves. Also more often than not have given me the time of day. I'm not being an apologist for them. This is my experience. Most of the trouble I have had with attitude and rudeness has come from average suburban guys and the most egotistical usually are the 'straight acting' dudes.

Personally it's guys like Brodes13 and Garofali who motivate me to take good care of myself, live a healthy balanced lifestyle, work hard and keep focused on my goals, also to keep it real and respect others.

I wrote into S.X. about this issue late last year. The link to the letter is below.

R.E.S.P.E.C.T. Letter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fahed

How do you teach self worth?

You bring them up with a strong and positive self esteem that is not based on such things as looks and material success.
You tell them that as one of the creations of the universe they are worthwhile and have value, which cannot be taken from them.
You teach them that they must love and value themselves if they are to love others. T0 respect themselves and acknowledge their own self-worth. To take care of themselves so that they can love and help their neighbours.
If you bring people up this way then they will not define themselves by the false imagery projected in the media.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmoodle

You bring them up with a strong and positive self esteem that is not based on such things as looks and material success.
You tell them that as one of the creations of the universe they are worthwhile and have value, which cannot be taken from them.
You teach them that they must love and value themselves if they are to love others. T0 respect themselves and acknowledge their own self-worth. To take care of themselves so that they can love and help their neighbours.
If you bring people up this way then they will not define themselves by the false imagery projected in the media.

Also to take care of themselves by keeping healthy and fit, along with dressing appropriately for social situations! It's all a part of self esteem and good citizenship.

As Ricky Martin tweeted a few months ago 'Taking care of myself is not egotistial it's self esteem'.

I suppose the main message I got out of it was

Prepar yourself for arseholes, Concentrate on you and what you want to do and live up to be. Find the people who love you for who you are and most of all be happy about yourself and everything you want to be

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyandmimmi

I suppose the main message I got out of it was

Prepar yourself for arseholes, Concentrate on you and what you want to do and live up to be. Find the people who love you for who you are and most of all be happy about yourself and everything you want to be

That's it! Also take care of yourself!

yay I got it lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmoodle

You bring them up with a strong and positive self esteem that is not based on such things as looks and material success.
You tell them that as one of the creations of the universe they are worthwhile and have value, which cannot be taken from them.
You teach them that they must love and value themselves if they are to love others. T0 respect themselves and acknowledge their own self-worth. To take care of themselves so that they can love and help their neighbours.
If you bring people up this way then they will not define themselves by the false imagery projected in the media.

Yeah, and then they step out into the real world and are torn down by everybody they run into. "Self-worth" is gone because it was always just based on what someone else was telling them. I think most people are brought up in a similar way to what you describe - it doesn't stop them getting sucked in.

I think people need to recognise that these things (advertising, media, unrealistic expectations etc.) DO affect them, and then systematically AVOID paying them the slightest bit of attention. It's not about building self-worth, it's about preventing others from taking whatever you do have away from you.

Im a gay-failure myself but its cool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fahed

Yeah, and then they step out into the real world and are torn down by everybody they run into. "Self-worth" is gone because it was always just based on what someone else was telling them. I think most people are brought up in a similar way to what you describe - it doesn't stop them getting sucked in.

I think people need to recognise that these things (advertising, media, unrealistic expectations etc.) DO affect them, and then systematically AVOID paying them the slightest bit of attention. It's not about building self-worth, it's about preventing others from taking whatever you do have away from you.

I disagree. Self worth is not something that can be taken away because its something youre born with. You can lose sight of it but you never lose it.
Self esteem can take a battering and go up and down depending on circumstances but self worth is always there whether you know it or not. People need to be armed with the tools and strategies to make their way through the gauntlet that life can be, not wrapped in cotton wool and mollycoddled.

Im not sure if I approve of Weathervain posting again. Remember how rude and uncharitably he was to me before? I mean , hello again.

"Fame costs and here is where you start paying...."

Actually, I think the idea behind self worth is like you both have said, it's not about whether you lost it or not, and it's not about whether it goes up or down. You cannot lose it, that's correct, it may fluctuate, that's also correct, but Fahed is right when he says it's about not letting others take what you have away from you, if you are truly aware of your own self worth, then you are confident enough to see through people when they are just trying to take from you.

Does it get better? Yes, it does, it does because we DO better, these are not to independent statements, one cannot happen without the other.

It GET'S better, because we DO better. However, would we really DO better, if we didn't think it would GET better?

I sold my self-esteem to pay the rent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badamj2000

I sold my self-esteem to pay the rent.

(Just cause you need to be told how much you're appreciated )

I had an interesting experience that relates to the subject at hand. Something I've been doing for so long it's become almost automatic, but Doolander's comment just reminded me of it. About half an hour ago I was walking home from the train station when I went to cross the road and some lady in a car, wearing huge sunglasses, perfect hair, nice, expensive outfit and a pretty face drives past like a robot. All I saw was vulnerability and a lot of it.

When you have good self esteem, you're not phased by praise or criticism of you personally. It's just flows past.

Also I've been told by a few mental health workers (psychologists, psychiatrists etc...) that the external reflects the internal in many ways. How you present outwards does show to some degree how you are internally.