Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

I've found there are a lot of gals out there who claim to be lesbian, yet still LOVE the disco stick. I don't see why they just accept they're bisexual.

I was at a birthday party for the partner of a lesbian work colleague years ago at Stonewall and a few of her friends were getting on with each other and these guys who were like their groupies. One infact apparently after years of being straight came out as gay, yet you could tell he was bi-sexual. The disgusting thing was that one of the women tried to erotically kiss me, it was just disgusting, I still cringe at this white fair haired skippy chick trying it on. I'm dry reaching right now.

Naw @ Ash - passes detol

Can't and won't speak for women but occasionally you do meet a guy who says he's bi yet gut instinct (gaydar) tells you they're gay. They just can't admit it. One foot in the closet and one out. That's what makes so many people sceptical. I accept that there are bisexual people but those who use "bi" as a label for their denial are messing things up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexX

Uh, pretty sure Trina was being sarcastic and suggesting that bisexuals don't have it hard and therefore we don't need support groups. Happy to be corrected, though.

Unfortunately sarcasm doesn't always come across as such in print, and it is pretty difficult to create a mood that is ok with such jokes when such a high proportion of comments is biphobic and bicritical. Even some of the questions that are framed in a sincere fashion seem to have an undertone which says "Justify your existence".

I also have been involved in various queer support groups for the last six years, and I have found many of the responses to the initial post on this topic truly saddening. I think samesame can be better than this.

Please, unless you can come from a position of basic support for bisexual people, just go away. This is not a place to discuss whether bisexuals exist, whether climate change is real, or any other non-debate. If you have a question about bisexuality, ask it from a position of positivity and support, not accusation.

Please don't generalise about everyone's situation. If you have an experience of life you want to share, say "In my experience..."

Barrin, sure, I've met plenty of people who honestly thought they were bi, and after years of self-exploration they've come to the conclusion that they're gay. You know what, though? I've also met lots of happy bi people who initially thought they were gay because they thought it was the only option. When people are offered that false dichotomy, gay or straight, and they know they're definitely not straight, then all too often they'll rush into identifying as gay, especially when they feel pressured to "make up their mind" by narrow-minded friends.

Positive acceptance of the whole spectrum of human sexuality makes this kind of confusion less likely, which helps everyone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBecause

Would you be in a relationship with a bisexual Trina?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trina2004

Men and women aren't that different people. Some of you talk like they are two totally different species.

I like women for their smiles, their walks, their hair. I like men for similar reasons. Whether I'm sucking cock or going down on a chick, I'm doing it cause I like that person and want to make them cum.


*stops preaching. Realizes that I said 'cock' AND 'cum'. * very unladylike:P

ensign charlie! Wonderful post and a Doctor Who fan! It's a double win!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBecause

Would you be in a relationship with a bisexual Trina?

yes...of course...why does it matter to me who their last partner was?
I've slept with men before...if that puts women off me well that is their problem.

some people might describe me as bisexual but I am not a fan of the label..it seems a meaningless division.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrin

Can't and won't speak for women but occasionally you do meet a guy who says he's bi yet gut instinct (gaydar) tells you they're gay. They just can't admit it. One foot in the closet and one out. That's what makes so many people sceptical. I accept that there are bisexual people but those who use "bi" as a label for their denial are messing things up.

Basically your journey is your own. How you identify is your own. I know both men and women who claim to be same-sex-exclusive but I know as observed fact that their behaviour is otherwise. HOWEVER, I don't question their self-identity - that is their issue, not mine.

This goes double for bisexuality because by most definitions it has many many shades of grey - anywhere between 2 and 5 on the old Kinsey scale in fact. Sexual identity can be fluid and it often doesn't gel in a simply way with behaviour. I will back someone's self-identity against my gut instinct or gaydar or whatever any day.

The sceptics will just have to get over it. I do understand that bisexuality can be complex and hard to grasp for those with very clearly defined single-gender attraction, but bisexuality as an identity is here to stay, it is helpful to large numbers of people who don't clearly fit into the LG or straight camps, and the lived experience of the many bisexual people I have known over the years is very clearly different in many ways from both LG and straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trina2004

yes...of course...why does it matter to me who their last partner was?
I've slept with men before...if that puts women off me well that is their problem.

some people might describe me as bisexual but I am not a fan of the label..it seems a meaningless division.

Hear hear. You should be able to sleep with men and women and NOT be labelled as bisexual. No use picking up a label if it doesn't work for you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irene

I'd say that bisexuals have the best of both worlds.
I just don't see the need for a support/discussion group. I'm genuine in saying that. Other than dumb comments like Sesame's, what issues affect bisexuals that don't affect gays and lesbians? I suppose you could have someone in a heterosexual domestic situation, who likes a bit of gay action on the side, or vice versa, and consequent problems at home. Is that basically it, or is there more? I'm willing to learn.

Hi Irene,

i'm pleased that you're open to learning more...it is potentially a complicated answer but i will try to keep it short as possible (!).

aside from the important stuff that DexX has already said, I'd like to add some other thoughts from both observation and research.

first, bisexuality doesn't mean that all people who identify as bi are primarily going to end up in hetero domestic relationships. Being bi can mean that a person is more attracted to same sex but acknowledges that they have some feelings for other genders (plural in recognition of transgender) and vice versa. then there are people who actually feel more attracted to a person and their gender doesn't matter one bit.

in regards to feeling sexually fulfilled (responding to a comment above) for some bis being with one partner is enough while for others they enter into multiple open relationships (e.g. polyamory). we don't have a lot of research on numbers but the little bit out there suggests that gay, lesbian, heterosexual and bisexual people are all about as likely to enter into open relationships which suggests that this isn't about one particular sexual orientation...i'd also like to point out that despite the label, bisexuality isn't all about the sex (just like homosexuality isn't either). attraction can involve feelings which don't have to be acted upon, e.g. think of how many times we see someone and feel attracted but don't follow them and tell them.

lastly, i'd like to comment on the risks associated with being bi. in particular mental illness and suicide. there's been a lot of press about the increased risk for mental illness and particularly suicide for people who are gay or lesbian, which is justifiable in my opinion because we need to be aware of the impact of bullying and similar behaviours. what hasn't received attention is that research indicates that bisexuals are at even greater risk than G&L. the lack of visibility and denial (and biphobia) experienced by bisexuals from hetero and G&L communities has been indicated as a strong reason.

receiving support and forming strong social connections are going to help reducing these risks.

there's a report that's been published this month which summarises a good deal of recent research on bisexuality which i would recommend to anyone wanting to learn more (though a little academic): www8.open.ac.uk/ccig/files/ccig/BisexualityReport_final.pdf

This is going to sit uncomfortably with a few people on this thread. Yet from my experience I've found bi-sexual men often exhibit alpha-male and sex predator behaviour around gay men.

From these observations I can see why a lot of gay men have a negative view of bi-sexuality.

*braces herself as MrAsh tries to start another shitfight with a minority group*

Quote:

Originally Posted by trina2004

*braces herself as MrAsh tries to start another shitfight with a minority group*

I couldn't hold back Trina! Yet I'm shutting up now!

Person posts notice of bisexuality discussion and support group on Same Same.

Thread devolves immediately into doubts about the existence of bisexuals, and if they do exist whether they are sexual predators.

*sigh*

Once again, THIS is why we need these kinds of support groups.

I'd like to pose a question: What is it like for gays to be told that they dont exist - that they are really heterosexual and its the product of an absent father or a dominant mother - we all know that that argument doesn't hold water - too many gays have had loving, strong fathers and still been gay. Its pretty outrageous to to suggest that line of thinking now and we are mortified that straight ppl could hold that line of reasoning. This is a very similar scenario to bisexuals are told they dont exist. How degrading is it that people suggest that gays aren't really gay or that they are in sin, an abomination to God etc. I find it ironic that parts of gay and lesbian community has forgotten what it was like not all that long ago and in various pockets of society these attitudes still exist. The way I see it a very similar thing is happening to the Bisexual Community not just from the heterosexual community but from the LGBTIQ community too. So yes it is hard for bisexuals who are amongst the highest propensity for mental health issues amongst the LGBTIQ community and is it any wonder when they are fraught with attacks and biphobia from both sides.

Its not ok to suggest gays are any less than they are - same for lesbians, its not ok to tell them they dont have or cant have attraction for other females. Its not ok to tell transgender people that they aren't the gender that they identify as and that they should forget about it and accept the body they have , I could go on about intersex, queer, questioning etc but I think you get my drift and its the same for bisexuals too - it is not ok to say that we dont exist - that we cant be attracted to both sexes, that we are greedy, or cheats or simply indecisive, theoretical etc.

It can be confusing for bisexuals in a world that is so polarised to the gay/straight line of thinking and nothing else in between. But once we understand that we have a dual attraction and have settled with that being the way we tick, we are ok with that and no longer confused. There is nothing to be indecisive about either we can have a partner of either gender or we can have more than one partner of different genders. Some bisexuals want both genders in their life and they have to work that out with their partners. Some bisexuals aren't fussed about gender as long as they are with partner/s they love.

There are cheating, indecisive, greedy, confused straight people and I am sure the same applies to gay people, lesbians etc - these are arguments that do not hold water for me - why should these myths be singled out for bisexuals? It doesnt hold any water at all - all sexual groups will have some of these kinds of people. Bisexuals are simply another group of people that have similar goals and desires to most groups of people - we just happen to be attracted to two genders in varying degrees and complexity just like the attraction to the opposite gender and the attraction to the same gender have their variations and complexities. So basically bisexuals are people.

With all due respect I dont agree that comments in this thread that have been disrespectful, dismissive, diminishing and discriminating should be swept/brushed aside - all that is being said by this action is to affirm those disparaging remarks that clearly are against the rules of this forum. If it were your people group that was being disrespected, disparaged, diminished or discriminated against, would you put up with it? Or would you defend yourself and your people group. Why? Because you are people just as we are and people have the right to live with dignity and respect, to occupy space and breathe air and live our lives provided we harm none. When we seek to diminish others we merely diminish ourselves. When we brush aside another's pain we invalidate them and in doing so we invalidate ourselves.

Btw its not that hard to find bisexuals - many major cities have a group for bisexuals - I'd encourage you to go along to a group and listen with an open mind and an open heart to their stories and get to know them before deciding they dont exist or their discussions are entirely fictitious or theoretical.

"I've found bi-sexual men often exhibit alpha-male and sex predator behaviour around gay men."

"I'm always confused about why bi-sexuals feel discrimated against."

*blink*

Seriously, you can't make this stuff up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DexX

"I've found bi-sexual men often exhibit alpha-male and sex predator behaviour around gay men."

They do, for a while I practically lived in SOPV's and I can tell you first hand, a lot of the bi-guys I've encountered are like that towards gay men and I believe it may be due to internalised homophobia.

why th fuck is it so difficult for some ppl to accept others as they are (assuming they'r not harming themselves or anyone else)

*you dont fit into any of th little narrow boxes i have created in my head - therefore you must be wrong - and now i will demonise you*

seriously, wtf???

Oh for fucks sake let Bi people have their discussion thread.

Why has this site turned nasty against all and sundry if they dont fit YOUR ideals ?

Denying the existence of bisexuality is so 1980's.

It's all getting too ridiculous for words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

For a while I practically lived in SOPV's and I can tell you first hand....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

From my experience I've found bi-sexual men often exhibit alpha-male and sex predator behaviour around gay men.

You sprawled out on your back, begging like a bitch probably contributed to your perception.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustBecause

You sprawled out on your back, begging like a bitch probably contributed to your perception.

LOL! Sorry to disappoint, that's not how I roll.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

Secondly it's pretty clear there needs to be more education about bisexuality since there is a lot of ignorance about it and the thread creator should be educating people more on the topic instead of playing the victim card.

Pardon me? I personally posted a notice about a new support group and then attempted to answer some questions put as to why a group of this nature is required. Other posters have chosen not to ignore what they felt were bi-phobic comments *sigh*.

I guess Rosa Parks should have stayed sitting down the back of the bus all those years ago and tried "educating people" rather than standing up for her civil rights, cause that was just "playing the victim card".....

I've been reading this thread with interest and seen a few people report it to us mods. Thanks to those of you who did.

The thread took a turn for the worse but in amongst it we have a bit of useful stuff I agree with about accepting people who they are, even if their sexuality is a different to yours. Seems obvious to me, but perhaps some folks need a reminder of it now and then.

So I won't delete anything on this thread, but will act sooner with future situations like this one.

Matt x

I can't understand that any gay person would question if bis exist. Most people in the past, and still a lot of heteros today say the same thing about gays - that they are really hetero but were fucked up by pedos or have serious personality problems so they can't relate to the opposite sex. So with that blatant ignorance about gays, it's very difficult to understand why gays can't accept bisexuals. But some gays really are fucked up I suppose - like the one a few months back who couldn't understand heteros being attracted to the opposite sex, and now people who don't believe bisexuals exist. It's these people who are fucked up, not the gay accepting straights, nor the bis, nor the rational gays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

This is going to sit uncomfortably with a few people on this thread. Yet from my experience I've found bi-sexual men often exhibit alpha-male and sex predator behaviour around gay men.

From these observations I can see why a lot of gay men have a negative view of bi-sexuality.

AS you have predicted, this sits uncomfortably, not just because it is a common stereotyping of bi men by gay men, but also because this thread was explicitly started as a bisexual SUPPORT thread. Perhaps if you want to discuss this, you could start a new thread for this topic. and those bisexuals who want to engage in such discussion can join you.

However, as you have posted here, I'll just say this - my general impression of bisexual men who I have hung out with (admittedly not in exclusive same-sex situations) is that there is a marked tendency NOT to engage in the same alpha male behaviours seen in the straight world and - sometimes let's admit it - in the gay world.

Would also be interesting to discuss the term alpha MALE, as my observation is that these behaviours are not exclusively gendered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

They do, for a while I practically lived in SOPV's and I can tell you first hand, a lot of the bi-guys I've encountered are like that towards gay men and I believe it may be due to internalised homophobia.

This makes no sense, you in a SOPV did the Bi guys have a fucking big sign on their backs saying "Im Bi" how the fuck would you know?

And dont give me any horseshit about they told me they were bi, my vast experience in SOPV is conversations are few and far between apart from have you got lube and do you swallow.

Just your usual shit.

I have known at least 100 bisexuals in my time, including myself in my own little way. I personally identify as gay but have had relationships with the opposite sex. I have no idea or really even a desire to analyse where that places me - kinsey scale style. I just wanted to say I totally support a discussion/ support thread for bisexuals on same same. I might not have alot to contribute to the thread but if I feel I have something constructive or interesting to say I will.