Quote:

Originally Posted by biflab

Ooooh you big liar!

If you dont beleive me go brake into the STD clinic records sometime for the proof...

The racism does not necessarily manifested verbally. Sometimes I think some people's value is quite racist.For example, some old white gay guys (very very old) having young cute Asian guys as partner, but white guys take it as granted instead appreciating their good fortune.
They always assume that their Asian partners are stupid and not capable of doing things. “my boyfriend does not speak English properly" "my boyfriend does not know how things work in Australia" They do not consider the fact that for Asian guys grown up from another culture, learning language is a challenging task, some fat old guys luckily get slim young fresh Asian body , it is not a good deal already but they still think their boyfriend could have been better. That example does not apply to every white/Asian couple but I did observed it while my boyfriend took me visiting his old friend.

“my boyfriend does not speak English properly" "my boyfriend does not know how things work in Australia" They do not consider the fact that for Asian guys grown up from another culture, learning language is a challenging task

Doesn't saying "My boyfriend does not speak English properly" simply affirm the very true statement that "Learning language is a challenging task". Of course a second language learnt in adulthood will not be spoken as 'properly' as a person's native language.

Doesn't "My boyfirend does not know how things work in Australia" state an obvious outcome for someone who has "grown up from another cutlure"? When someone enters a new situation - cultural or otherwise - of course their knowledge of 'how things work' will be less complete than for someone who's had a whole lifetime in that situation.

These examples don't strike me as targeting any particular race - or fundamentally about race at all - but simply a statement of the obvious that Australia is a distinct country whose history, language and life-ways are particular to the place and not simply interchangable with other places. I think similar experiences have been experienced from people of virtually all races who have moved to a new place - sometimes even regionally in their own country where they were the same race, but not of the same culture or dialect of people in the new home.

This is the very essence of diversity. Diversity means that differnt people, places and things ARE different and those differences are acknowledged, not denied.

Its totally normal for a person's second language to be different from a native speakers or for an immigrant's cultural understandings to be different from a native-born person's - who does not have the extra burden of trying to bridge two systems of knowledge. Claiming otherwise is just delusional.

Thank you for you reply longhorine
I was there and I have heard the tone of his words, so I am quite sure that he is expressing his dissatisfaction instead of making a statement.

Getting used to a different language and culture situation can certainly have its frustrations, but its all a part of the adventure and opportunity of living and/or travelling in a differnt country. Developing a good local-born social network can help identify and improve the inevitable knowledge gaps a newcomer may have in regards to local life-ways.

I think I am very lucky as my boyfriend never do the same as his friend usually do.
Privately, he makes corrections if I make mistakes. He always say nice things about my body and skills. He has never told his friend that "my boyfriend does not speak English properly"

The racism does not necessarily manifested verbally. . . For example, some old white gay guys (very very old) having young cute Asian guys as partner, but white guys take it as granted instead appreciating their good fortune.

So is the white guy fortunate BECAUSE the other guy is Asian? This statement seems to be putting positive and negative values on individuals based on their inherited appearance-traits ie. 'race'.

This would be a very good example of racist valuation because the statement asserts that white guys should "appreciate their good fortune" if they are able to score an ostensibly superior Asian boyfriend - a very good illustration of assessing potential partners based upon their race.

The associations placed on the two stated racists are interesting as well.

The post describes White guys as :
"old (very, very old)"
"fat"
"old"
"not a good deal"

The post describes Asian guys as:
"slim"
"young"
"fresh"

The post is loaded with examples of racist stereotyping and evaluations, however, the acknowledment of one's birth culture and native language are simply not amongst these examples.

Sometimes I speak to Catholics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebats

…Sydney is the only country where it is common to see 'No asian, indian, fatties or Fems' …

…I am new in town but I doubt it, as the guys are generally in my age range and often attractive…

…he felt Sydney was racist…

…Disappointed as Sydney is my home … but with the discrimination, I no longer feel at home.

Oh dear, you came here a month ago to complain. And now you have gone

To go back to the original question in the title: How much racism is there out there?

In order to start quantifying a response, I conducted a Hunt of profiles on a popular networking site of profiles listed in the Greater Sydney region.

I investigated profiles which self- identified as “Asian”, “Black”, “Indian”, “South Asian”, and “White”. All ages were included and no differentiation was made between local born and individuals from overseas. [Ie, if a profile claimed to be from a German and living in Sydney, their responses were counted equal with a native-born white Australian.]

Profile texts were surveyed for statements expressing a value judgment of various races in terms of their desirability as a partner, hookup, etc.

Results:
The race of a partner was a selection criteria used to some extent by profiles in all the surveyed groups from Sydney. The profiles posted by some groups had significantly more statements of racial desirability than did others.

1.8% of the profiles identifying as ‘Indian’ made statements of racial suitability
3.1% of the profiles identifying as ‘South Asian’ made statements of racial suitability
3.4% of the profiles identifying as ‘Black’ made statements of racial suitability
5.6% of the profiles identifying as ‘White’ made statements of racial suitability
6.4% of the profiles identifying as ‘Asian’ made statements of racial suitability

Thus, profiles identifying as ‘Asian’ were nearly three-and-a-half times as likely to express attitudes of superiority/inferiority towards a particular race than were profiles identifying as ‘Indian’.


When averaged across all 5 group , racist statements would be found in 4% of the profiles sampled from Greater Sydney.

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

All ages were included and no differentiation was made between local born and individuals from overseas. [Ie, if a profile claimed to be from a German and living in Sydney, their responses were counted equal with a native-born white Australian.]

That's a little bit unfair to lump all people living in Sydney into the one pot like that.

Yes I realise that you can't identify all people who migrated to Sydney (from other parts of Australia or overseas) thru such a research method but it does leave open the question as to whether it's people from Sydney who have the racial preference or people who've migrated there who do.

Is it possible that Sydney born and bred Asians are the ones who have aspirations or white partners because that's what they've been surrounded by all their lives?

Or is it foreign born Asians who want a white partner because white people are considered exotic for them?

Is it Sydney born whites who only want other whites? Or white migrators from other parts of Sydney who only way other whites? (I suspect it's the latter)

this is not a criticism of your research as it seems to be very thorough, simply a suggestion for further avenues of research should an academic out there like to take up the challenge of defending Sydney born gay men.

As well as for us to discuss our thoughts on the matter as well.

I suspect that Sydney born gay men don't have the same racial preferences as country bumkins as they've been surrounded by more diversity their whole lives. It's the cretins who migrate to sydney who bring their attitudes with them and give a city it's bad name

Ps. I notice no mention of middle eastern men in your research. Where they not included in the sample or lumped in with white people.


I have noticed that some mediterranean men like to describe themselves as middle eastern when quite clearly they are European and therefore white.

I sometimes leave the inner city. I take lots of tissues in case I get a nose-bleed. I also have google maps on my phone and WhereIs and a tazer and a whistle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badamj2000

Sometimes I speak to Catholics.

Nothing good will come of that. I know I asked your Rabbi and he told me - oi vay.

Im sorry but I dont speak Yiddish.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HubbaHubba

That's a little bit unfair to lump all people living in Sydney into the one pot like that.

Yes I realise that you can't identify all people who migrated to Sydney (from other parts of Australia or overseas) thru such a research method but it does leave open the question as to whether it's people from Sydney who have the racial preference or people who've migrated there who do.

I suspect that Sydney born gay men don't have the same racial preferences as country bumkins as they've been surrounded by more diversity their whole lives. It's the cretins who migrate to sydney who bring their attitudes with them and give a city it's bad name

Given that the question of the thread was based on RACE, i decided stick to that one criteria and not complicate the issue by trying to account for the CULTURAL influences that new arrivals to Sydney from country, interstate, or overseas may or may not have with them.

And that's where I think alot of these "sexual racism" arguments fall down.

Often the "discrimination" is actually based on culture not on race. Ie. It's how a particular culture behaves that people find off putting rather than disliking what a particular race looks like (ie. Their physical characteristics that they can't change - behaviour CAN be changed).

QUOTE=HubbaHubba;570271]Ps. I notice no mention of middle eastern men in your research. Where they not included in the sample or lumped in with white people.

I have noticed that some mediterranean men like to describe themselves as middle eastern when quite clearly they are European and therefore white.[/quote]

Excellent points -
I think as you hint, a further break-down of personal demographics may well reveal that many of the issues commonly attributed to 'race' are probably more closely tied with 'culture'. For the purposes of this survey, it seemed to make sense to stick with the hypothesis in the OPs question of how much of the role Race plays in Sydney partner selection.

In order to maintain the ‘Race’ focus, no identity-groups were lumped together and no subjective assessment was made as to whether a particular profile 'looked' the particular race which the poster identified as their own. Self-identifications were accepted at face-value in all cases.

As you mentioned the classification, 'Middle Eastern', may not be a good indicator of 'Race'. It seems that the identity could be claimed with equal legitimacy by Blonde hair/ Blue eye Anatolians, more 'Mediterranean' people from Jordan, Lebanon, Syria; Israelis; Persians; Peninsular Arabs; even people from the '-stans' - each of whom looks distinct from one another, but all of whom could claim the multi-ethnic and principally Geographic Identity of 'Middle Eastern'

For purposes of completeness - and with such caveats in mind - data for the profiles identifying as 'MiddleEastern' is below:
4.0% of the profiles identifying as ‘Middle Eastern’ made statements of racial suitability

Shit you've been thorough!

You should apply for a research grant to take this further. Well done on adding some empirical research to this conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by badamj2000

Im sorry but I dont speak Yiddish.

You have to be a speaker of tongues given your multi-ethnicity of your neighbours.

At this point it might be worthwhile to put forward working definitions as a common reference as to what is meant by the words ‘Race’ and ‘Culture’.

A survey of online dictionaries and encyclopedias generated a series of phrases which can be used to inform a working definition.

A composite working definition for ‘Race’ might be:
A distinct suite of genetically inherited physical-features and appearance-attributes characteristic of a particular group


A composite working definition for ‘Culture’ might be:
A learnt package of attitudes, beliefs, values and behaviours which are characteristic of a particular social group.

Perhaps the most important definition for this string would be a definition of ‘Racism’

The United Nations does not, in fact, offer a definition of ‘Racism’ but does define ‘Racial Discrimination’:
any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.


Whilst the UN accepts a very broad definition of ‘race’, it is interesting that the United Nations focusses on ‘Human Rights’ and ‘Fundamental Freedoms’ and specifies that their definition is confined to PUBLIC LIFE. This Internationally accepted definition significantly does not broach the spheres of private or personal life or areas that extend beyond ‘Fundamental freedoms’ and ‘Human Rights’.

Same old topic and same old responses. Obviously the people who are not sexually attracted to Asians/Indians will defend their preferences so they are not branded racists. Just like the religious people justify their dislike of gays so they dont look like homophobic a**holes. I'm only a bit annoyed sometimes when people say things like "no fatties/queens/fairies/asians/indians/blacks/ etc.", so basically my whole being is just as bad as something which is considered not good for any decent man such as being fat etc. Well being Asian is not gonna make me the dirt in life and I cant change the fact that I was born Asian, just like you cant change the fact that you were born gay. What do you think if your employer just wants to hire straight people because they're not brought up being comfortable or open-minded with gay people? How can you ask people to change something that's deeply part of their upbringing/ culture, when you yourselves cant change the fact that you dont think minority gay people can have sex appeal too because you claim to be born that wat? That's hypocritical.
Anyway I prefer people being upfront so I dont risk wasting my time or being ignored saying hi to them. And to all Asians/Indians I dont think you should get upset either. If people want to live in their own islands and refuse to get out it's not worth it spending time and energy thinking about them. A lot of minority gays are hotter than white guys anyway and If given the opportunity I'll date them. You just have to stop contaminating your heads with the thought that white guys are the hottest. Some of them are fugly or 1st class a**holes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtacee1990

Same old topic and same old responses. Obviously the people who are not sexually attracted to Asians/Indians will defend their preferences so they are not branded racists.

have a read of the research someone did on racial preferences stated in online profiles further up the thread. you may change your mind about your opening sentence.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayTee

have a read of the research someone did on racial preferences stated in online profiles further up the thread. you may change your mind about your opening sentence.

Link? I dont think Im gonna change my opinion though since this is a topic Im well familiar with. But let's see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xtacee1990

Link? I dont think Im gonna change my opinion though since this is a topic Im well familiar with. But let's see.

The research that longhornie did, listed in post #70 of this thread

Well it will be interesting to see just how much racism there is out there after yesterdays riots.

Im afraid those Middle Easterners hate whities

Racist or not is a long discussion to make.
But I would like to simplify as prefer or dislike.
I am an Asian guy, rejected a lot from those hot young Aussie guys. At first I thought it was me, not be good enough, such as not good looking or not fit enough. But then I found afew young Aussies do like Asian guys doesnot matter how they look. I started to think, different people have their types, it just happens most Aussie Guys are more like who they are better. I think that's nothing wrong!
Put no Asian or Indian was bit rude to see, but I am now totally respect that decision, at least they are be honest to express.

It is like we have our rights to like certain type of person, if the person was not in that circle, we would want exclude them. Only different is some done it gentle and nice, but others are bit nasty.
Personally I am not a fan of Indian guys, If they approach to me, I would say no, is that make me racist?
Racist to me is quite extreme behavior. If their profile state as don't like to date Asian or having sex with, for me that's really cool, they had their own choice to make. We all wanna make our life easy and comfortable right? Then tell the truth is not a bad start.

so many threadsabout asians. not enough about discrimination to blonds.