I just wrote a blog post with my thoughts on an interesting documentary my Gender Studies class watched the other day about the experience of Asian men on the gay scene and our community. I thought it raised some important questions about our community and I was wondering if anyone else had something to say about it?

You can read what I said at my blog... misterethangannon dot blogspot dot com

Cheers!

There are a few Same Same threads on this topic and quite lively discussions and debates about race, racism and the GLBTIQ community.

The two recent ones are the 'Australia and India - united we stand' and also 'Racism and sexual racism in the gay community'.

Also you may want to discuss this topic with Azulmelb, he has a lot of knowledge and experience on this issue.

Hot white guys do go for Asian guys. I have had plenty... it is possible.

China Dolls is outdated, Its 14 yrs old it is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernesto_1

China Dolls is outdated, Its 14 yrs old it is irrelevant.

It's not totally irrelevant Ernesto. A lot of the subject matter is still relevant, even though there has been a lot of social progress and more acceptance of diversity in GLBTIQ culture over the last decade, a lot of racial stereotypes and predjudices still exist. A predominant one is the potato queen and rice queen sub-culture which is clearly racist behaviour and just reinforces negative beliefs about gay Asian/Caucasian attraction and romantic/sexual relationships.

it's only relevant if u turn into an old rice queen preying on young desperate Asians at 357 in 10 years time

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernesto_1

it's only relevant if u turn into an old rice queen preying on young desperate Asians at 357 in 10 years time

I am not Matt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrAsh

I am not Matt.

So there's hope for me yet - Phew!

No offence, but I think the whole Asians as marginalised thing is rubbish nowdays.

China Dolls is talking about the 90s - now 'Asians' on the scene have a critical mass to the point that they have a massive presence in one of the few remaining gay bars (shift downstairs) - not to mention the fact they are present in most gay bars.

Like the recent Queer Thinking debate topic - it's about Asian men feeling like they can't get laid!

I'm of a mixed background - so I see it as someone who on paper should be more marginalised than Asian men.

I know heaps Asian men who are aggressive tops or who have younger white boyfriends so i really dont think anyone believes the old stereotypes - apart from a few of the guys who go to 357 sauna.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AussieG

No offence, but I think the whole Asians as marginalised thing is rubbish nowdays.

China Dolls is talking about the 90s - now 'Asians' on the scene have a critical mass to the point that they have a massive presence in one of the few remaining gay bars (shift downstairs) - not to mention the fact they are present in most gay bars.

Like the recent Queer Thinking debate topic - it's about Asian men feeling like they can't get laid!

I'm of a mixed background - so I see it as someone who on paper should be more marginalised than Asian men.

I know heaps Asian men who are aggressive tops or who have younger white boyfriends so i really dont think anyone believes the old stereotypes - apart from a few of the guys who go to 357 sauna.

A lot of progress has happened over the last decade with the inclusion of Asian men and the breakdown of stereotypes of them in the GLBTIQ culture. Yet marginalisation still exists and stereotypes still persist. In my opinion potato queens and rice queens usually are the worse culprits of perpetuating and reinforcing negative beliefs and attitudes of gay Asian men.

There are a lot of people who aren't into asian, and there are even more asians who aren't into white guys.. its waterer. rejection is always tough. so lets all just settle for someone and no one gets hurt!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ernesto_1

There are a lot of people who aren't into asian, and there are even more asians who aren't into white guys.. its waterer. rejection is always tough. so lets all just settle for someone and no one gets hurt!

I have to say Ernesto, I have come along way with dealing with rejection and it's partly due to your help.

I recently did a Hunt on another profile site for guys of all ages and all areas of Victoria who identify as one of the following: 'Asian', ‘Black', ‘Indian’, and ‘South Asian’. The combined search brought up appx 500 hits which provide some interesting talking-points.

Of the Victoria Men identifying as ‘Asian’ 145 profiles consisted of less than one line’s text.

These counts didn’t include the more wordy write-ups that consisted of large blocks of Quotation from songs or other sources or the multi-sentence productions along the lines of “I don’t know what to say. I hate writing these things. Is there something you want to know? Just ask!”

Conversely there were 8 ‘South Asians’ with one-line profiles, 6 ‘Indians’ and 12 ‘Black’

A second count looked at more-or-less empty profiles which contained only two words or fewer in the profile text. The self-identified ‘Asian’ profiles produced appx 50 of these empty profiles, while there were only 3 from ‘Indian’ posters and 7 for ‘Black’.

Nearly 40% of all profiles identifying as 'Asian' in the survey, in fact, chose not to include basic content. Is this kind of non-expressive passive-agressive disengagement a form of self-marginalisation?

The content of the profiles was also interesting. One of the ‘Asian’ identified profiles pointedly proclaims: “I have personal preferences, but happy to chat with anyone”. Not all, but many profiles contained statements of what an ideal partner’s racial background would –or would not – be.

The race-preferences stated in the profiles can been seen to fall into 3 categories: “I don’t like Guys like you”, “I don’t Like Guys like me/ I only like guys like me” and “I am seeking the Trophy-‘Other’”. This third category should also be recognised as a tacit rejection of other races/cultures vis-�*-vis the many claims on various online venues that it’s better to say the one thing that you are after as opposed to mentioning anything which you are particularly not.

From this survey, profiles identifying as ‘Asian’ expressed the strongest ideas about the value of race in terms of partner selection. The racial-dating experience and expectations expressed in the ‘Asian’ profiles was largely bi-polar, addressing the person’s positive or negative evaluation of ‘Asian’ or ‘White’ men as partners and generally not acknowledging other racial backgrounds.

Category A: I Don’t Like Guys Like You
Profile Identity Comment

Black “No Ginger”
South Asian “No Indian”
Asian “No Indians and Asians”


Category B: I Don’t Like Guys Like Me/ I Only Like Guys Like Me
Profile Identity Comment

Asian “No Indians and Asians”

Asian “Prefer Asian Guys”
Asian “Prefer Asian”
Asian “Prefer Asians”
Asian “Looking for something sticky”
Asian “GAM for GAM”
Asian “Basically into Asian. It’s just a personal preference. I’m not a racist”


Category C: I am Seeking a Trophy ‘Other’
Profile Identity Comment

Indian “I’m attracted to nice Caucasian guys”
South Asian “Interested in Asian sorry I am not attracted to anyone else”
Asian “I am looking for a nice and decent str8 acting GWM or Oz guy”
Asian “Red Hair especially welcome”
Asian “I am looking for Bi/GWM”
Asian “Looking GWM for casual fun”
Asian “ISO GWM”
Asian “ISO hairy GWM . . . physically attracted to opposite”
Asian “GAM for GWM”
Asian “Especially love Euro”
Asian “Looking for Middle-Eastern, Caucasian, South Asian, Latino”
Asian “Prefer White”
Asian “Friend requirement: can be Black or White”
Asian “Prefer GWM”
Asian “Preferences I like white boys”

The survey of profiles also found numerous passive-agressive statements of 'This Group Only' to the exclusion of all others. This of course implies that having sex with a guy of a particular background is a some kind of special prize which offers a Validation that is cannot be had from having sex with men of other distinctions or identifications. That seems to be a very racialist attitude in itself: simultaneous blatant objectification of one 'prize' group of men and extreme dismissal of men of all other backgrounds.

wow that is a good read! it's like looking at an ants colony and seeing how the red and and the black ant interact !

Longhornie. Some great posts - and not a single cut and paste.

Food for thought in your research.

Gay Asian Men = High School Girls.
Gay White Men = 50 Old Likes young 18-24
GAM seeks attention --> goes for GWM.

AussieG's post calls this notion "rubbish nowdays" and points out that there is "a massive [Asian] presence" in gay venues.

In society in general did we not just celebrate 'Buddhas Day"? Is there a capital city which DOESNT have a 'China Town'? Are Asian-focussed businesses NOT prominant on preeminant CBD thoroughfares: George Street or Swanston Street for example? Have persons with Asian identities NOT been prominent leaders at local, state, and national levels?

This all would seem to suggest that AussieG's "critical mass" has indeed been achieved and that in the broad picture 'Asians' are significantly LESS marginalised position than other identy-groups in Australia.

The whole phenomena is more interesting given the very long history of 'Asians' in Australia. Among non-indigenous people, Asians have been here longer than any of the other groups in the survey with the first recorded arrivals from China in 1818 - only 30 years after the First Fleeters - a flash in the days before telephone, radio, television, internet, or other fast global communications and speedy world transportation networks.

It’s interesting that one of the longest-established communities in Australia is the one self-identifying as the most 'marginalised' particularly given how conspicuous it is in its active participation in civic and business life and in many levels of governance.

It is likewise interesting to see how many of the 'Asian' profiles in the survey seem to ignore that peoples of identities which are neither 'Asian' or 'White' do actually exist in no-small-numbers in contemporary Australia.

Here, Gilco's post observes that when GAM seek attention, they do so from GWM.
From the survey it seems that anyone not identifying as 'White' or 'Asian' is completely off-the-radar for the majority of 'Asian' profiles expressing a race preference.

This begs the question:

Do individuals identifying as 'Asian' base their notions of 'marginalisation' - and consequently 'acceptance' - on their experiences only with those identifying as 'White' or if this experience holds true across a more representative spectrum of backgrounds present in contemporary Australia?

If not, what is it that 'Asian' identities are seeking from 'White' identities which -apparently - cannot be had from people with other identities?

Quote:

Originally Posted by longhornie

The survey of profiles also found numerous passive-agressive statements of 'This Group Only' to the exclusion of all others. This of course implies that having sex with a guy of a particular background is a some kind of special prize which offers a Validation that is cannot be had from having sex with men of other distinctions or identifications. That seems to be a very racialist attitude in itself: simultaneous blatant objectification of one 'prize' group of men and extreme dismissal of men of all other backgrounds.

I see this predominately with non-caucasian men wanting a caucasian because of a notion that 'white men are superior' (especially with gay Asian men and in particular the attraction many gay Asian men have towards blondes) and I also see this to a lesser degree with caucasian men wanting a 'latin lover' or 'black stallion' etc...

When the issue of racism and sexual racism is discussed this is seldom ever mentioned and the focus always is on who you 'don't' find attractive, instead of who you objectify or exoticise. I think the latter needs equal amount of attention and people need to be educated on how destructive objectification and exotification can be to both the idolator and the idol.

I'm surprised there's been no sermon by azul about this thread yet.