Two lesbians originally from Canberra have taken legal action against their doctor after they gave birth to twins instead of one child. They're saying that the doctor gave them two embryos instead of one - and that they specifically asked him not to. Now they want him to pay $400,000 to cover the cost of raising that daughter.

It begs the question - at what point do you plunge into the unknown when you decide to have a baby? Where does the responsiblity lie? Multiple births are a risk for any woman out there. Should we really be looking to our medical professionals to foot such bills?

Alternatively, the flip side is that this woman made a request about what happened to her body, and seemingly the doctor didn't heed that request.

What do you think?

Selfish, greedy, ungrateful, horrible women. They perpetuate the stereotype of gays wanting designer babies.

Well I guess they can try!

Ordinarily i'd say hey so you got twins - tough shit. However in this case she specifically requested something of her doctor which he blatantly ignored, so she's well within her rights to sue.

Tough one here - i totally agree that on the surface they personify the whole "designer baby" thing and this bugs me so much that i won't dare open the can of worms. On the other hand - medical professionals do need to listen to their patients but again there is more to it. If it was in the best interest of the mother (medically) to implant both embryos to enhance the chance of success. In all instances - lawful direction must be in writing so given that the request was made verbally just prior to the procedure i would be suprised if they have any chance of successfully suing the medical practioners.

What bugs me the most here - is that they have been fortunate enough to have a child when there are so many of us denied the opportunity to do so. But, I guess there is just no pleasing some people!

I think that they can prove the doctor didn't respect their request then they have some sort of case. But overall, the fact they considered giving one up totally turns me against them. If they felt that way why didn't they insist on a selective abortion then? Or stop the implantation procedure when he was going ahead with the second embryo? It sounds a bit like an after-the-fact money grab.

I'd also argue that even if the doc had only placed back one embryo it may have split on it's own accord and then would still have had twins! Would they have still tried to give one up then? Or demanded money? There was no guarantee they *wouldn't* have twins. No one can plan so precisely their children!

21? i recall the child support from my father ended when i turned 18. this is a bit rediculous... how nice will the kids feel when they find out one of them wasn't wanted and that mummy and mummy tried to get rid of one of you too... gutless

oh, please. lets be real about this.

we all know you have 3 months to healthily do something about an unwanted pregnancy. i'm sure that that same 'rule' exists for 'IVF babies' and 'turkey basted babies' and 'missionary position babies' and 'against the wall babies' alike - and as the parent/s you have the responsibility to make a choice. don't throw the responsibility back on to the 'service provider' after the fact. i'm sure a gynaecologist would have given them the news that there were two little blobs growing in there, not just one.

these girls are doing a marvellous job for the gay and lezi fight for IVF rights, don't you think? SHEESH@!

I agree with Philandering - WTF is going to happen when the kids grows up and finds out that their parents didn't want one of them or wanted to put one up for adoption.

I get the fact that they may not be completely finacially stable - but still its a pretty big slap in the face to the kids.

Wow, I'm surprised that everyone is so damn opinionated about this. I don't think they're responsible to be poster girls in any way, it's not their fault that the whole story has been picked up by mainstream media as the latest sensational, look-at-those-crazy-queers story. I think we should wait and hear the doctor's side so that we hear the whole story before we judge them on the limited facts that have emerged so far..

in the history of IVF, have you ever heard of anyone else being upset at a positive outcome? i haven't. and why? because IVF was originally created as a last resort for straight people who want to have a child 'of their own' and are not able to conceive naturally.

i take your point about us not jumping on them - but no-one is asking for them to be made poster-girls of. it happens to be true, however, that the first ever case of its kind in this country has been commenced by a couple who are of the same sex.

i must ask if i am not the only one who hopes desparately that ANYONE having children is doing it for the right reasons. in the situation of a gay/lesbian persons wanting to have children it will probably never be 'by accident' that we fall pregnant, so yes, in my opinion, we kind of do have more of a responsibility to ensure we are doing it 'for the right reasons'.

i doubt i will have a child 'of my own' - on another thread i have given my reasons for this (which don't include infertility) - and this story, regardless of the couple's sexual orientation, highlights the need to know what you are doing and why you are doing it.

i think it is that point from which most of us are coming in our postings - well i am, at least.
alikatt

here here alikat! i'm 100% spot on with you on that one. to curl your nose up at a second baby - a baby that's now THREE YEARS OLD - to still be going to court for cash over it - well, it's just gross.

I find this story to be wrong and it gives gay community a bad name, especially when we are fighting for equal rights.

I can understand their 'distress' but they need to realise thay are actually lucky enough to have a baby in the first place.

I think the lesbians involved had high expectations and now learnt a harsh reality that straight parents is going through the early years of childhood. We need to ensure that having children are not to be taken lightly. It's a HUGE responsibility of the parents - emotionally and financially not withstanding.

For starters, I don't think we know the whole story yet, so I think it's a bit gross to be acting like judge and jury at this point when even the court hasn't heard the whole story.
For instance, we haven't even heard the doctor's reply (it has emerged that he swore in horror when he realised that he'd inserted two embryos), so we are still making all of these assumptions based on our own idea that these are two totally horrible people.
Sure, they may be acting a bit rich, blaming their own relationship breakdown on a third party, but hopefully the court will find that to be the case if it is.
But there's a bit of Lindy Chamberlain style Aussie nastiness going on at the moment. Just wait and see before casting the villain, is all I'm saying.

Dan you are quite correct.

We dont know the whole story. However as you noted, the doctor admit he made a mistake and swore when he realised it.

i think you are missing my point.

i don't think i am being nasty, and i certainly don't have the energy to make myself any clearer if that is what you think.

i'm sorry if i offended your sensitivities, danny.
alikat

Yes, I can imagine however straight women would not view this story in a positive light as they often do not get the choice between twins and a single baby... I find the whole thing a bit distressing..

Firstly lets clear up one thing the word "lesbian" has only been inserted by the media for sensationalism.

On to the IVF thing now - i know that during IVF treatment on people who actually need it (this excludes a couple of selfish dykes) to concive the whole philosopy behind it is to insert more than a couple of fertised eggs back into the womb in the hope that at least one of them takes.....it is not uncommon for users of IVF to have twins or even tripplets out of a successful attempt of IVF yet i don't see any of these couples throwing up their hands saying I could cope with one baby but two will ruin my life! You use IVF to make a family not a lifestyle.

This is just an attempt by a couple of selfish people to cash in on what some would consider the most wonderful experience in their life.....yet those poor people who struggle with fertilisation have to hear about this crap from a couple of people who i would say aren't even ready for a pet goldfish.

Shame on you Melbourne Lesbians!

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjm078

Shame on you Melbourne Lesbians!

they are from Canberra...

on this

I think its disgusting

how many IVF births result in multiple births?
multiple embroyos are implanted to ensure that at least one grabs hold and reaches the end of the road - this at least was my understanding... which is why I thought twins, triplets, quads etc were more common from IVF treatments

but I suppose the outcome will be that access to IVF will be tightened that only heterosexual people who can prove they are infertile...

just think when the twins grow up they will probably say mummy didnt want me!!

just think when the twins grow up they will probably say mummy didnt want me!!

They are from Canberra, the procedure took place at Canberra's John James Hospital, and now they live in Melbourne.

I think they do have a legal case -

If it were a different operation that a doctor performed incorrectly, say removing your kidney when the problem is in your liver, you would certainly consider legal action.

It is so much more loaded with emotion because there are babies involved, but in another sense it is a pretty cut and dry case.

That said, I think the amount they are asking for is outrageous. But I think that a small amount of compensation should be forthcoming.

This was disgraceful.

I can't believe the majority of you guys and clearly the mass media also seem to think it's perfectly okay for a doctor to ignore a patient's explicit request. This has got nothing to do with whether the couple should be happy about getting kids or not, this 100% about a doctor messing with the life of his patient against her wish. That's just so wrong, i don't see how anyone can support it. It's absolutely vital that we can trust our doctors - letting them get away with this sort of thing is just a disgrace.

these two women should be ashamed. First they want to have a child and now they are blessed with 2. if you are ready to have a child then you are ready to have 2.
ok , if they are upset they have 2, well didnt they know they were having 2 in the first place? to sue the doctor is very sad , they are obviously after money which is discusting seeing they both earn allot of money together. there are women in this world who cant even have children, if they want to bless osmeone else witha child adopt one of them out if they must. but take sum responsibility for your actions ladies. children are a blessing be glad you have 2 healthy babies, now you have double the pleasure of a child , don't make this childs life tarnished by this rubbish. enjoy them, just as you both choose to be lesbian and then choose to have a child, then choose to be responsilble with your descision. if you go through with suing this doctor your child with suffer, you all will suffer, your child will become a monitary symbol , he or she wont feel loved or wanted, dont do that to your own child. Enjoy them!!!

how embarrassed they should be! they make more money than most 2 partner families combined, had more of an opportunity than some to have a family and yet still have to complain....they should think about the poorer couples that cant or wont ever be in a position to have children at all! i see it as a blessing not an opportunity to get richer!

how embarrassed they should be! they make more money than most 2 partner families combined, had more of an opportunity than some to have a family and yet still have to complain....they should think about the poorer couples that cant or wont ever be in a position to have children at all! i see it as a blessing not an opportunity to get richer!

How quick we are to judge based upon what the media reports. There are numerous examples in Australia where couples have sued doctors in "unwanted life" cases - usually because some sterilisation procedure has failed resulting in an unplanned child. Those cases have invariably involved claims for damages associated with the costs of raising the child.

The media has never felt the need to emblazon those stories with headlines like "Straight couple doesn't want unplanned child" nor to examine those court cases in order to paint the heterosexual couples as "money hungry", "greedy" or "selfish".

I can't criticise these woman for not considering the impact of the case on the "reputation" or public perception of lesbians/queer people generally. If it was a straight couple people wouldn't be drawn to say "gee, they should have considered the impact of the case on the public perception of straight people wanting to conceive" or "they make me embarrassed to be straight".

I rail against the double standards of it all. That a lesbian couple have to consider whether to exercise a legal right because of negative perceptions about lesbians - the same legal right that a straight couple could (and do) exercise without blinking an eyelid.

C'mon people.. we're not talking about someone going under the knife for plastic surgery and coming out with 3 tits; we're talking about an actual life here.
I still think the couple should count their blessings that they could even have one child let alone two.
Then again, seldom with stories in the media do we see the full story, so it's quite likely that the whole situation was twisted around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alison87

I can't believe the majority of you guys and clearly the mass media also seem to think it's perfectly okay for a doctor to ignore a patient's explicit request. This has got nothing to do with whether the couple should be happy about getting kids or not, this 100% about a doctor messing with the life of his patient against her wish. That's just so wrong, i don't see how anyone can support it. It's absolutely vital that we can trust our doctors - letting them get away with this sort of thing is just a disgrace.

ok again

from my understanding:

IVF costs x amount of dollars per treatment (I think its a couple of thousand) now most people don't have that sort of money just rattling around...

so generally to increase chances of success doctors will generally implant more than embryo in the hope that at least 1 embryo takes

now what would have happened if the doctor only implanted 1 embryo would these women then be suing for the fact they didn't get pregnant?

now also
lets look at nature for a bit
you can never guarantee that you will only have 1 child
multiple births happen naturally
so as far as I can see
if these women would have chosen alternative methods to get pregnant they may have still had twins....

these two women should count both their blessings
they should also count their blessings that they got access to IVF