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Image for Activists 'glitter bomb' Germaine Greer in NZ

Activists 'glitter bomb'Germaine Greer in NZ

Noted Aussie feminist author Germaine Greer was left baffled after an LGBTI advocacy group ‘glitter bombed’ her at a book signing in New Zealand’s capital today.

Covered in glitter as the culprits make their hasty getaway, she’s clearly not happy.

The Queer Avengers group, who argue that Greer espouses ‘transphobic feminism’, has claimed responsibility for the sparkly attack in Wellington.

Transpeople’s concern over Greer stems from a 2009 column in The Guardian, in which she reacts to the row over whether intersex Olympian Caster Semenya can qualify in the women’s events.

“Nowadays we are all likely to meet people who think they are women, have women’s names, and feminine clothes and lots of eyeshadow, who seem to us to be some kind of ghastly parody, though it isn’t polite to say so,” she wrote. “We pretend that all the people passing for female really are. Other delusions may be challenged, but not a man’s delusion that he is female.”

“Transphobic feminism is so 20th Century,” Stacey of the Queer Avengers tells NZ’s gay media GayNZ.com and Express. “It wasn’t okay then and it’s not okay now. Women’s liberation must mean the right to refuse imposed gender roles, to fight for diverse gender expression.”

The group handed out flyers saying ‘Transphobia is bullshit’, and are increasingly vocal about recent news media reports they say have been insensitive to gender diverse New Zealanders.

Social

Comments

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Irene

Irene said on the 20th Mar, 2012

What's that got to do with this thread? This thread is in News & CurrentAffairs.

Irene

Irene said on the 20th Mar, 2012

Dat, you're so anti anyone who is LGB, so why do you even bother with this site?

Irene

Irene said on the 20th Mar, 2012

To ammi: of course opinion is important on a forum site. But you have to be careful. For example, this is an LGBT site. If I said "look it's my honest opinion that gays do more harm than good and the best method to deal with homosexuality is systematic extermination." Would that be okay on this site? No. It's an (albeit extreme example) of a radically anti gay statement and inappropriate. By similar vein on an lgbT site to say "I feel SRS is genital mutilation, should be discouraged and is the wrong treatment." is inappropriate. Had you said "I don't think SRS is right for everyone and I think we need to be more aware of how young non-binary people see it, for example I see it as something that would be damaging to me." it would have been MILES different. The inferences, tone, and implied implications of the second expression is very different to the first.

So, let me get this correct. You're telling Ammie what she can think and what she can say?

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 20th Mar, 2012



Thanks Ensign-Charlie. :)

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 20th Mar, 2012



No. I'm telling her that what she says can be construed very differently from what she might think she's saying and she has to be careful, because from knowing her, she is SAYING something wildly different from what she's MEANING. Because we've had discussions like this at length in private before, and the way she expressed herself then was very different, and the meaning out of it was not offensive, rather thought provoking. I can make excuses for that and say "oh well I know what she means" but not everyone here does. So ME making excuses for what she actually means vs what she's saying is meaningless.

As for as a general rule: we all think things we can't SAY because it would be rude. It would be offensive. It would be inappropriate. So we express ourselves diplomatically and carefully. It's called existing in a society.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 20th Mar, 2012

I'm an activist, its part of my job to keep one eye on our supposed allies lol.

We considered changing the word transphobia to "chucking an Irene".


datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 20th Mar, 2012

true but it was pertinent to the question.



it was funny that a few of the first cis people who came into the GD rooms were people who have displayed transphobic behaviour.

chin scratch

As for Germ aine

well the Jury is out, she is a pretend feminist nutjob. Femfail

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 20th Mar, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI4otTziYjk

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 20th Mar, 2012

Gosh I knew this story would attract debate but even I've shocked at the extent of it. I hope we can all see each other's views and respect them, remembering we're all on a steep learning curve!

Hey... in regards to our new Gender Diversity forum:

http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=71

As shown below there may be some clarification needed what/who is allowed in there:





Unlike our Ladies' Lounge, which was specifically requested as a women-only oasis on a usually male-dominated site, the Gender Diversity section is for any and all of our members to join in discussion about Trans* Intersex and Gender Diverse topics - not just non-cisgendered people.

We agreed - and datkindagal you were with us on this - when we set it up that we'd run it like that. And the same rules around respect for others apply as per the rest of the site, so report any posts you feel are insensitive. As suggested above, it's about educating and encouraging diversity, and I hope that's the spirit you type on our site with.

----

Back on topic... I had to laugh when I saw this tweet appear on Q&A. From a Same Same reader perhaps?

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m37/makersten/download.jpg

xxx

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I hope you aren't singling me out as an antagonist Matt.

Marko

Marko said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I think what Matt's doing is just cooling the heat in this thread. Always good to see some stability. :]

azulmelb

azulmelb said on the 21st Mar, 2012



Wished he did that in the [URL="http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?p=538552#post538552"]Sexual Racism thread though...:(

Marko

Marko said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I know Mate, I've addressed this situation to him in previous comments. Matt is unfortunately only one man and on top of all his Same Same duties in the office, he also has to deal with shit in here and then head out and be a photographer covering various events, also he has his own personal life that he more than likely sacrifices way more than he should for this place. In my opinion if there are active mods, maybe they step up their roles a bit more? or in the case that there's a lack of mods maybe assign new ones? Just a suggestion though.

azulmelb

azulmelb said on the 21st Mar, 2012



Okay, who's being rude now?

I don't follow you or anyone else that I've had problems with and comment on your/their posts.

So why are you doing it to me? Is this some form of bullying?

Apparently, you don't like me and my presence in SameSame, so you and others choose to hassle me to either get me to leave or submit to your authority?

I know this might make me look like a sook but I genuinely don't understand people that make an effort to comment on people that they DON'T like.

Personally, I avoid people that I don't like - I don't engage with them, I don't communicate with them.

For example, I don't get along with several people here and I see them posting in other threads but I don't make comments on their posts just to show them how much I don't like them. I guess I'm lucky that I'm not petty and spiteful like them?

One of my mottos in life is "stay outta my way and I'll stay outta yours." But it seems like quite a number of people here don't agree with that - they have to consistently put others down.

Pity.

Irene

Irene said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Azulmelb, this is not the thread to hijack. Go back to your other thread, and raise it as an issue there.

Marko

Marko said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Can we not start again in here? I'd say please but fuck bowing down to others.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't come into a thread I've been commenting on and accuse me of stalking you whilst you attempt to get pity/attention for an unrelated issue.


I refuse to engage with you any further on this thread as I won't be an agent of derailment.





To ammi: of course opinion is important on a forum site. But you have to be careful. For example, this is an LGBT site. If I said "look it's my honest opinion that gays do more harm than good and the best method to deal with homosexuality is systematic extermination." Would that be okay on this site? No. It's an (albeit extreme example) of a radically anti gay statement and inappropriate. By similar vein on an lgbT site to say "I feel SRS is genital mutilation, should be discouraged and is the wrong treatment." is inappropriate. Had you said "I don't think SRS is right for everyone and I think we need to be more aware of how young non-binary people see it, for example I see it as something that would be damaging to me." it would have been MILES different. The inferences, tone, and implied implications of the second expression is very different to the first.

By the same token, on a site that is racially diverse, would you think it appropriate if someone said "I'm not racist but Asians really are unfit to live in this society for reasons x, y and z." that would not be appropriate. It's still an opinion. But it's a deeply offensive and inappropriate one. As was the WAY in which you expressed yours. You can't assume that people can read your mind and intent. They have to read your WORDS, as such, you have to be careful about them.




^^^ nothing to say, just think it's worth quoting.

azulmelb

azulmelb said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't come into a thread I've been commenting on and accuse me of stalking you whilst you attempt to get pity/attention for an unrelated issue.

I refuse to engage with you any further on this thread as I won't be an agent of derailment.

But you can come on the Sexual Racism thread and derail my discussions with other people. I wonder why you can and your mates can't see the pettiness and hypocrisy that you are clearly exhibiting.



My apologies to you Irene - as you can see from my previous post on this thread I had mentioned that have no intention of hijacking this thread because I am unfamiliar with the issue but I have made some comments and those comments were directed to Matt and to Marko and yet Trina felt the need to come into the conversations. She and her mates continually do that to me.

I am not trying to hijack but I am merely standing up for myself - I can't believe people would actually bully others like this.

I will be complaining about this, don't worry about that.

Sorry again for interrupting.

Marko

Marko said on the 21st Mar, 2012

...In other words you're all acting like a bunch of butt fuck bitch's? I can see that.

Marko

Marko said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Lol.
Homophobe;)

You don't have to be male in order to have an arse...so open season in my opinion..... :P

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

back on topic, GG is a washed up old failed feminist :)

thats all..

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

some examples why we dont like GG and will try and shut her down whenever she opens those chops.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/429799_3224329839478_1003456955_32794197_1486377549_n.jpg

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 21st Mar, 2012



One of my mottos in life is "stay outta my way and I'll stay outta yours." But it seems like quite a number of people here don't agree with that - they have to consistently put others down.



except that you have blamed white gay men for the suicidal thoughts of non white men. That's not staying out of peoples way.

Anyway this thread is about Germaine Greer and transphobia so we should let them get back to that topic.

By the way whilst I have found some of the concepts and arguements in this thread to be a bit over my head, for the most part it's been quite informative.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

people idolize Steve Jobs too but he was a slave master.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

Germaines rhetoric became anti-feminist when she threw some woman under the bus.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

The hate trans folk face today is partly due to cis woman like Janice and Germaine and of course the patriarchy. They have both contributed to the violence perpetrated on us by cis society and allowed other cis woman to think that this is ok. But over time people came to their senses (not everyone -radfems) and realised that trans woman face to same violence that cis woman face however it gets worse. Some of this violence is perpetrated on us by cis woman as well (Crissy Lee Pollis case 2011). Further down the rabbit hole, we have a large part of the cis queer community who are very much transphobic as weird and illogical it sounds its rampant. Trans people in cis queer spaces often get silenced, shut down, labelled, misgendered, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cissexist humour.

then when a trans person stands up and says something or calls something out its stacks on by the cis queers. Some of the worst web based bullying I have experienced happens this way.

If the Cis Queers really want to be serious about the plight and struggles of trans peeps then the cis queer community needs to learn some respect and treat people as an equal and not the running joke.

You wonder why trans folk react the way they do, because cis queers should know better.

the world is a cis gendered place for the most part but in non cis spaces cis folk need to learn these rules just like we spend our lives trying to understand yours even though for the most part it excludes us.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 21st Mar, 2012

sorry forgot to add

TRANSPHOBIA has a flow on effect on Trans Children. This is not a joke.

Petition

Irene

Irene said on the 21st Mar, 2012

....Further down the rabbit hole, we have a large part of the cis queer community who are very much transphobic as weird and illogical it sounds its rampant. Trans people in cis queer spaces often get silenced, shut down, labelled, misgendered, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cissexist humour.

then when a trans person stands up and says something or calls something out its stacks on by the cis queers. Some of the worst web based bullying I have experienced happens this way.

If the Cis Queers really want to be serious about the plight and struggles of trans peeps then the cis queer community needs to learn some respect and treat people as an equal and not the running joke.

You wonder why trans folk react the way they do, because cis queers should know better.

the world is a cis gendered place for the most part but in non cis spaces cis folk need to learn these rules just like we spend our lives trying to understand yours even though for the most part it excludes us.
Most trans people on this site accept that it's primarily a LGB site, but that trans people are welcomed and accepted. At times though, cis people get silenced, shut down, labelled, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cisphobic humour by certain trans nutters. There is no need for trans people on this site to consistently denigrate the LGBs with their homophobic and cisphobic comments - they should know better.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

lets pose irene's question to same same and Matt

is it a GLB site? T people are welcome (as visitors?)

are we visitors or are we part of. We cant be both.

Irene suggests we are visitors.

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

lets pose irene's question to same same and Matt

is it a GLB site? T people are welcome (as visitors?)

are we visitors or are we part of. We cant be both.

Of course you are involved and part of it. It's an LGBTI site, I think you know that because we've chatted about it so often.

Can I ask a favour though? I've come back to this thread because we've been asked a direct question. I'm not taking sides on this and don't like getting drawn into arguments. I would LOVE an end to the battle you're having. Both sides have put their point across, can this be an end to it? xx

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Of course you are involved and part of it. It's an LGBTI site, I think you know that because we've chatted about it so often.

Can I ask a favour though? I've come back to this thread because we've been asked a direct question. I'm not taking sides on this and don't like getting drawn into arguments. I would LOVE an end to the battle you're having. Both sides have put their point across, can this be an end to it? xx

You would probably have better luck asking for world peace :D

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012



sounds like a fair conclusion to me. :)

ammonite

ammonite said on the 22nd Mar, 2012



I can see I didn't make a clear written distinction between the facts I was presenting, my questions, ideas, discussion elicitors, opinions, and my feelings.


I really am sorry everyone. I didn't mean to be offensive or disrespectful. If you could just tell me what it is any of you would like me to do to make it up to you?



Once again; when I said that I felt it was mutilation, I meant that I have negative feelings - a mental and physical reaction - to thoughts of and discussions about SRS. It was not an opinion, or a statement of fact. That's why I said "I feel", not that "it is".

(Thinking about it I've realised that people sometimes misuse the word feel, but I don't, and I don't know why I should be punished for other people's grammatical errors?)

I didn't present any evidence of it being mutilation, as I did and do for everything I present as a fact or opinion and frequently also for discussion elicitors.

I pointed out things I felt contributed to that feeling, like stories of intersex mutilation, and said how I was still having trouble not thinking of it in the same way - not feeling the same about SRS. Somehow people seem to have thought I was attempting to link the two in some kind of factual or evidentiary way? But I don't see how that is possible or makes any sense at all?

Again the reason I talked about my feelings was that I wanted to be able to see it in other ways and reframe it in my mind.
I still don't really understand how that was not apparent. Why would anyone tell someone, without being asked, they feel badly unless they were asking for help to change that feeling?

I brought my feelings up because they seemed relevant to the discussion about second wave feminism, because I assume that is how they also feel about it as either they create theories based on those feelings or attitudes, or the feelings or attitudes would be created by the theories. I thought discussion of this would be the point of this thread.


Also when I said it should possibly be discouraged, that was because of the evidence I had presented - the studies - that appear to show long term dissatisfaction and/or lack of improvement in dysphoria.
However I did also acknowledge when Dat reminded me of the huge amount of suffering occurring, that waiting to find out if those studies are accurate or not is not an acceptable option either.
Thinking about it since then, it has occurred to me that to many people, (maybe even most people?) a short term relief from such huge suffering might actually feel well worth any return to suffering or later additional suffering experienced.



You can't assume that people can read your mind and intent. They have to read your WORDS, as such, you have to be careful about them.

....No. I'm telling her that what she says can be construed very differently from what she might think she's saying and she has to be careful, because from knowing her, she is SAYING something wildly different from what she's MEANING. Because we've had discussions like this at length in private before, and the way she expressed herself then was very different, and the meaning out of it was not offensive, rather thought provoking. I can make excuses for that and say "oh well I know what she means" but not everyone here does. So ME making excuses for what she actually means vs what she's saying is meaningless.

I considered everyone I was talking to a friend. I thought everyone knew me. (I did forget that SeaMist is new and I'm very sorry SeaMist.) and I thought I could talk about my feelings here without being judged.

I don't understand why none of my friends told me I was doing the wrong thing.
It has become apparent that several people were discussing it and debating what I meant.
Why didn't anyone just ask me?
Then all of this behind the scenes discussion or patience or whatever it was - it suddenly and violently ran out. I didn't get any warning signs. People started screaming at me in private messages, posting facebook statuses which I am left paranoid and unsure as to whether they are about me or possibly passive aggressive messages to me or not, or some have just stopped speaking to me all together.

But if you were in my shoes, if the situation was reversed, with any of you, I would have asked you what you meant, told you at the beginning you weren't expressing yourself well or that you weren't coming across in an acceptable way. because I would have wanted to know! and because I would have wanted you to have the chance to make it right. to realise you were hurting people's feelings and in enough time that you could still mend them, and to avoid this social ostracism I am once again experiencing.

I seem to be incapable of doing this.

It has surprised me as I did think I was fairly OK, or at least acceptable, at existing in online digital society. Obviously once again I was very very wrong.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

I did tell you you were expressing yourself badly. Several times. Both privately and here.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

people dont say anything because Transphobia is accepted in mainstream society as ok. So when person is being transphobic, generally people wont challenge them.

as I said SS is a hotbed for transphobia. It happens alot of SS,

Telling trans and intersex people that what they do is mutilation is un acceptable. If you feel like saying it dont, STFU :) you are talking about stuff you dont understand and when you get it wrong you piss people off and hurt there feelings. So either do a Masters on it or just leave it alone. Take our word for it and understand that surgery is better then death. There are things about gay that doesn't make sense to me but I am not going to tare it apart on SS as I know it will piss people off.

trying walking in our shoes, IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT

imo most would curl up and scream for mummy.
Irene suggests that trans folk only have visitor status on SS
Ash thinks he is an expert and likes to lecture trans people on being trans. lol

then there's all the random accumulation of idiots like badadam and wisy and others who are just downright flat out transphobic but still remains on SS pedling his vile attitudes.


Does SS have a future with the trans community???????

Well you know what thats up to SS to take the initiative and take a hard line on transphobia. Do your JOB same same. I dont know if there is a future its not up to me.

Its seems we have some success with the Trans Media Style Guide and we are happy its being used however in SS's capacity as the moderator they have failed to not only recognise transphobia but act on it accordingly and fairly. As far as I know, no one has been banned from SS for transphobia.

This is very bad for SS

you need to pick up your game, you should treat transphobia as you treat homophobia. But you dont. WHY?

SS if you want to be open, trans accepting and inclusive then you really need to pick up the game and "stamp out transphobia" on SS. If you dont then like everywhere else atm trans people will come in here on mass and bring it to its knees. We just did this with queerty because of the same thing.

Now SS its your responsibility to deal with transphobia in a fair and equitable that is equal to any punishment handed out for homophobia on SS. If gay people are being transphobic (and it happens all the time) then its still transphobia and should be treated as such.

Now before anyone jumps on to the defence wagon, dont. We are not messing around and there is no defence for transphobia and if you are gay and being transphobic then shame on you and you cant continue without being challenged by our communities. One thing trans people learn is we stand up for each other because we know cis people generally wont.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427557_3092045692457_1003456955_32741189_1038471452_n.jpg

Irene

Irene said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Before you go off half cocked, read what I said. I said that it was primarily an LGB site :ie- dominated by LGBs with LGB discussions.

You alleged it was a non cis space. It's not.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

Before you go off half cocked, read what I said. I said that it was primarily an LGB site :ie- dominated by LGBs with LGB discussions.

You alleged it was a non cis space. It's not.

I agree Irene and I don't know what I said that implies I consider myself an expert either.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

the wonder twins ash and irene GOLF CLAP [ L ]ers

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTZWV3BNLwQ&feature=fvst

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybnH0HB0lqc&feature=share

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



You alleged it was a non cis space. It's not.

It's not a trans dominated space, but it should be one where they feel safe and welcomed and don't have to justify their right to exist.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

What the fuck is she wearing?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

+4 but seriously WHAT IS SHE WEARING??? :eek:

Irene

Irene said on the 23rd Mar, 2012


Agree totally. And I think it is just that.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



You may, but several trans* folk have said they don't feel this is the case. And they would know.

azulmelb

azulmelb said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

INTERMISSION:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcdhdzfbR_o

(Jump to 1:54 for the action!)

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Please keep your sexism to yourself.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

this is now a TPP issue



good luck

bye

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/224004_114766475273866_100002215428738_140124_314796_n.jpg

Jonaaardvark

Jonaaardvark said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/427557_3092045692457_1003456955_32741189_1038471452_n.jpg

sisters unite <3

TPanther

TPanther said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

* We've learned that several Trans Panthers of the Oakland TPP Pack (or sub-chapter) our counter parts across the Pacific pond, were shoulder to shoulder with Occupy Oakland behind shields standing up to aggressive Oakland police in January. Oakland, CA police threw "flash bang" grenades, tear gas rounds and shot rubber bullets at them, but they stood tough before retreating with others. Some of them were wearing purple in this video and are now veterans of street activism. Go Panthers!!

TPanther

TPanther said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

*** TO ALL:

As of this moment all, on this forum/site are on notice. The Trans Panthers Party for Self Defense is "in the house" and watching for any signs of trans bullying.

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

Welcome Panther. I hope you don't end up with any concerns but do let us know and we'll take action if you do. x

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

*** TO ALL:

As of this moment all, on this forum/site are on notice. The Trans Panthers Party for Self Defense is "in the house" and watching for any signs of trans bullying.

I trust you'll take some time to explore the site and see who's responsible for 99% of the bullying that goes on here.

Although I suspect you're already quite familiar with the site. You seem like that kind of girl ;)

wysi

wysi said on the 24th Mar, 2012

I trust you'll take some time to explore the site and see who's responsible for 99% of the bullying that goes on here.

Although I suspect you're already quite familiar with the site. You seem like that kind of girl ;)

isn't she that kind of girl

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 24th Mar, 2012



Oh I'm almost certain that TPanther is that kinda gal.

Irene

Irene said on the 24th Mar, 2012

I think it goes without saying! ;)
But then, that kind of gal isn't exactly a master of disguise.
God forbid the clones :eek:

http://www.theforce.net/episode2/newspics/clone_painting.jpg

wysi

wysi said on the 24th Mar, 2012



is it the same kind of girl that tried to bully gays on SS for being...too gay on SS? :eek:

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 24th Mar, 2012

Well I hope this is a move in the right direction for dat.

Personally I think catalogueing all rhe transphobic comments on ss and them reporting them to the moderators is a better tactic that her one liners of "one day we ll win" or "the days of gay reign are over" or some other useless remark that advances the conversation nil and makes no one feel any better for reading transphobia.

Also hopefully the TransPanthers are a democratic group and they organise themselves in a good way so that public statements by the organisation are planned and well thought out ....and not written by dat. Because whilst she has alot of passion for fighting transphobia she doesn't have the best public persuasions skills. ...just like another passionate individual on same same... At least dats posts are mercilessly short!!

HubbaHubba

HubbaHubba said on the 24th Mar, 2012

To all the other trans people on the forum, I suggest you seek membership of the trans panthers so that you have a voice in this group that is representing u.

Or at the very least keep on posting so that the erratic postings are balanced out by the more thoughtful posts that have made these 11 pages much more constructive than yhe 28 pages on that other thread.

meggaswift

meggaswift said on the 26th Mar, 2012

It is cleat that some trans people on this GLBT site have made complaints to TPP. It appears that someone was singled out and banned for calling out transphobia. We have looked into it and its very clear we are dealing with a transphobic gay website. Transphobia on Gay websites seems to be one of the biggest complaints we get. TPP are currently wording a petition to flag this behavior. We hope that Same Same improves their treatment of trans people. Removing a trans person from this sight and labeling them a bully due to flagging transphobia is in fact transphobia. We would ask SS to re instate our sister's memebership with a heart felt apology. Meg - TPP Illinois Chapter.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s720x720/537277_262202277196951_100002215428738_588110_1171883885_n.jpg

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Dat, How many clones do you have?

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 26th Mar, 2012

@meggaswift

It is always good to see some passion for addressing transphobia and we share that passion. We address transphobia when we see it - if you have specific concerns about articles on our site or comments from our members on this site then please do flag them with us ASAP.

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012



http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:britishexpats.com/get/forum/images/smilies/getmycoat.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:britishexpats.com/get/forum/images/smilies/scarper.gif

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I thought you had to be a member for a week before you could post images. Have the rules changed?
And who is Matt Atkins?

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012



Innovator of the Atkins Diet.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Truly I find this whole clone thing to be the saddest thing I have ever seen.

If you dont change your tactics or your attitude you only get banned again.

Nothing gained.

What I find worrying is how people can be posting during the day and there they are at 2am or 3 am still raving on. Good way to get yourself
worked up till you are so wound up you explode at anything. If you dont take time out and relax you will just drive yourself insane.

badtrany

badtrany said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Im trans and I have never been bullied on SS!

SeaMist

SeaMist said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I have....my entire experience here was apalling....I feel bullied....I feel invalidated.......I question why I have to 'defend' and 'argue' for my existence in a GLB and yes TQI site....omg even that was questioned. I am so over you all ATM and please stop with the trans and Dat bashing.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 26th Mar, 2012

So there we have it.

Badtrany has not experienced any bullying yet SeaMist does ?

So who is right ? who is wrong ? What are your expectations ?

You say "feel" SeaMist so please explain ? gives us some examples. Did you report the post ?

How can you blame SameSame when one person says no bullying and another says there is ?

SeaMist

SeaMist said on the 26th Mar, 2012

No I won't explain! I knew this would happen if I spoke. It degenerates into an aguement whether my feelings are valid or not....usually driven by a group of non trans folk who have IMHO unfounded high opinions of their own knowledge on trans issues. .These are MY feelings, this is how your incessant arguing about my identitity and how I should feel about almost anything makes me feel. Reread my other posts if you want any information....If everyone did that instead of shoving ignorant opinions down my throat, both myself and the world would be a happier place and Dat would have nothing to complain about. I am reporting the posts BTW including the last bout of continues Dat bashing. I don't like her militaristic approach but much of what she says on trans issues is accurate. Seems you all know better. End of arguement. I will not engage in this farcical fiasco any further.

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I remember as a new member a long time ago being bullied by 'that girl' for posting hot boy pics on the Hot Boys of the Week thread.

Why can't gays be gays without being called transphobic?

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012

And that is 90% or more of the problem. There would only be a very small handful of people here (if any at all) who don't get pissed off with her approach. A lot of what she's suggests is transphobia is not transphobia at all, but natural reactions to the way she does things.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 26th Mar, 2012




Oh please have a dummy spit why dont you.

There were 2 replies at opposites to each other so its only natural to ask why does one say there is no bullying and
you say there is.

With that attitude you will always be the victim. Something I havent seen Badtrany do.

Fair enough you wont post so maybe PM Badtrany and discuss as she seems to get along fine with everyone in all
the various threads.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 26th Mar, 2012



That's because you scare me but if you ever want to bully someone let me know ;) I've got all my own gear BT so all I need is someone with the right attitude who knows how to use it... my safe word is cumquat btw ;)

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012

http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:britishexpats.com/get/forum/images/smilies/nod.gif TPP is watching us. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:britishexpats.com/get/forum/images/smilies/tape.gif

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Okay y'all calm down. There are hurt feelings galore. Seamist feels bullied- OK.

I am not her, and you are not her, so let's not tell her how to feel. As for Dat... Ive heard she was banned for promoting transphobia... Which really doesn't seem likely. (putting it mildly)

Whys it so hard for us all to get along?

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012



Oh No!!!! Quick! Into the bunker! :eek:

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 26th Mar, 2012



Indi/Datkindagal/megga

You're welcome to watch us all you like. But you're banned from posting here because of the multiple accounts you're making and fake identities you're using to take potshots at Same Same and our members both here and on Facebook. It is the only reason you've been banned, and that ban is in place for a month. If you make one more new profile to continue this behaviour it will become a permanent ban.

Sorry to publicly tell you off like this but it seems you're simply not getting the message. You can't ask for respect from us while at the same time treating everyone on here like we're complete idiots.

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 26th Mar, 2012

And I am sorry SeaMist, for what you have experienced on here. Frustrations have been building for some time, and it's unfortunate some of them have spilled out into negative reactions to your posts. We are listening and do take your concerns seriously. We all have much we can learn from you.

ensign-charlie

ensign-charlie said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Perhaps if we are talking about bullying people could look at the way that Ammonite was bullied by DAT, Seamist and Charlie. Anyone who's been here for more than five minutes and was able to see further than their own fundament would know that the last person who deserves that kind of treatment is Ammonite.

I'm particularly dissapointed at Charlie. I had always seen him as a very sensible, reasonable and empathetic young person. Obviously now that he's identifying as trans he's allowing his behaviour towards others to be shaped by others who see themselves as victims of the great cis-conspiracy. Very dissapointing.

Really? I explained very calmly in this thread why I felt Ammonite was wrong. I actually felt rather bullied by HER. I don't identify as trans. I never have. I'm not cis is all. Her and I spoke about it in private, and both have apologised for our behaviour towards each other which we both agreed was fuelled by being upset, and that we were BOTH in the wrong, thank you very much.

I don't see anyone as part of a great cis-transpiracy. I don't agree with how datkindagal conducts herself. I have told her so before. I do think people need to think more carefully about how what they're saying could effect others. I don't think many people in this thread have done that very well, on either side.

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Can we all start fresh, having learned something? I don't want battles on here to continue for another 300 posts.

I am frightened someone else will get glitterbombed!!

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I googled the Trans Panther Party and came up with this from their facebook page:
http://twanzphobic.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/monica-violence-1.jpg
Extracted from http://twanzphobic.wordpress.com/2011/09/18/twanzjacktivists-new-levels-of-threats-and-harassment/#more-3042

Another site: http://gendertrender.wordpress.com/tag/trans-panther-party/

I'm not going to post the contents in full (I'm not RudeGirl), but leave you to read them yourselves.

Total nutters who should not be treated with any respect.

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012

WTF ? :eek:

"This LGB - T FB site and associated online forum allowing and tolerating rampant transphobia even after numerous complaints and several conversations and meetings with trans people. A media style guide in regards to trans people was introduced but is still continually being ignored. If any trans people complain or stand up for rights on this page and their online forum site they are attacked or singled out, the problem of transphobia is not dealt with. Please report this page for hate, and leave a comment in protest of their treatment of trans people.

The Trans Panthers Party is submitting a complaint with the Lambda Legal org, our own lawyers, the Southern Poverty Law Center - Hate Watch Center, GLAAD, a Human Rights site, Australian Human Rights Commission as well as publicizing the rampant abuse worldwide through a large number of social media, blog and news sites. "

http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=2933&d=1332742991

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012

I think even the trans panthers aren't excited by it. No one's even liked it, or commented on it. They probably know dat like we know dat.

SeaMist

SeaMist said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Thankyou Matt I appreciate the sentiments . Can you all please stop now. Please don't start with Brennan too. One of the kind women who made a submission to the UN to try and explictly exclude trans rights because somehow trans rights violates womens rghts. An extremist member of the redfem hub who attacks transwomen anywhere she finds them and whose postings make Dat's look quite mild. Just stop it now .....please........

wysi

wysi said on the 26th Mar, 2012

stop what? we're not even doing anything!

Marko

Marko said on the 26th Mar, 2012

Yeah lets stop this fighting, Matt's done the right thing and banned Dat, she'll do her time or face a harsher punishment. Job well done Matt. :]

So let's move on and talk about the issues that matter instead of descending into a clusterfuck again. >:]

Irene

Irene said on the 26th Mar, 2012



Out of personal respect for you SeaMist, I will stop. :) But I plan to personally find out about Ms Brennan, and make up my own mind.

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