Activists 'glitter bomb'Germaine Greer in NZ

www.samesame.com.au
  • 339
  • 3
  • 2559

Noted Aussie feminist author Germaine Greer was left baffled after an LGBTI advocacy group ‘glitter bombed’ her at a book signing in New Zealand’s capital today.

Covered in glitter as the culprits make their hasty getaway, she’s clearly not happy.

The Queer Avengers group, who argue that Greer espouses ‘transphobic feminism’, has claimed responsibility for the sparkly attack in Wellington.

Transpeople’s concern over Greer stems from a 2009 column in The Guardian, in which she reacts to the row over whether intersex Olympian Caster Semenya can qualify in the women’s events.

“Nowadays we are all likely to meet people who think they are women, have women’s names, and feminine clothes and lots of eyeshadow, who seem to us to be some kind of ghastly parody, though it isn’t polite to say so,” she wrote. “We pretend that all the people passing for female really are. Other delusions may be challenged, but not a man’s delusion that he is female.”

“Transphobic feminism is so 20th Century,” Stacey of the Queer Avengers tells NZ’s gay media GayNZ.com and Express. “It wasn’t okay then and it’s not okay now. Women’s liberation must mean the right to refuse imposed gender roles, to fight for diverse gender expression.”

The group handed out flyers saying ‘Transphobia is bullshit’, and are increasingly vocal about recent news media reports they say have been insensitive to gender diverse New Zealanders.

Social

  • Lazzarus
  • datkindagal
  • gogogadget

Comments

www.samesame.com.au arrow left
27191
trina2004

trina2004 said on the 21st Mar, 2012

I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't come into a thread I've been commenting on and accuse me of stalking you whilst you attempt to get pity/attention for an unrelated issue.


I refuse to engage with you any further on this thread as I won't be an agent of derailment.





To ammi: of course opinion is important on a forum site. But you have to be careful. For example, this is an LGBT site. If I said "look it's my honest opinion that gays do more harm than good and the best method to deal with homosexuality is systematic extermination." Would that be okay on this site? No. It's an (albeit extreme example) of a radically anti gay statement and inappropriate. By similar vein on an lgbT site to say "I feel SRS is genital mutilation, should be discouraged and is the wrong treatment." is inappropriate. Had you said "I don't think SRS is right for everyone and I think we need to be more aware of how young non-binary people see it, for example I see it as something that would be damaging to me." it would have been MILES different. The inferences, tone, and implied implications of the second expression is very different to the first.

By the same token, on a site that is racially diverse, would you think it appropriate if someone said "I'm not racist but Asians really are unfit to live in this society for reasons x, y and z." that would not be appropriate. It's still an opinion. But it's a deeply offensive and inappropriate one. As was the WAY in which you expressed yours. You can't assume that people can read your mind and intent. They have to read your WORDS, as such, you have to be careful about them.




^^^ nothing to say, just think it's worth quoting.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

The hate trans folk face today is partly due to cis woman like Janice and Germaine and of course the patriarchy. They have both contributed to the violence perpetrated on us by cis society and allowed other cis woman to think that this is ok. But over time people came to their senses (not everyone -radfems) and realised that trans woman face to same violence that cis woman face however it gets worse. Some of this violence is perpetrated on us by cis woman as well (Crissy Lee Pollis case 2011). Further down the rabbit hole, we have a large part of the cis queer community who are very much transphobic as weird and illogical it sounds its rampant. Trans people in cis queer spaces often get silenced, shut down, labelled, misgendered, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cissexist humour.

then when a trans person stands up and says something or calls something out its stacks on by the cis queers. Some of the worst web based bullying I have experienced happens this way.

If the Cis Queers really want to be serious about the plight and struggles of trans peeps then the cis queer community needs to learn some respect and treat people as an equal and not the running joke.

You wonder why trans folk react the way they do, because cis queers should know better.

the world is a cis gendered place for the most part but in non cis spaces cis folk need to learn these rules just like we spend our lives trying to understand yours even though for the most part it excludes us.

Irene

Irene said on the 22nd Mar, 2012

....Further down the rabbit hole, we have a large part of the cis queer community who are very much transphobic as weird and illogical it sounds its rampant. Trans people in cis queer spaces often get silenced, shut down, labelled, misgendered, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cissexist humour.

then when a trans person stands up and says something or calls something out its stacks on by the cis queers. Some of the worst web based bullying I have experienced happens this way.

If the Cis Queers really want to be serious about the plight and struggles of trans peeps then the cis queer community needs to learn some respect and treat people as an equal and not the running joke.

You wonder why trans folk react the way they do, because cis queers should know better.

the world is a cis gendered place for the most part but in non cis spaces cis folk need to learn these rules just like we spend our lives trying to understand yours even though for the most part it excludes us.
Most trans people on this site accept that it's primarily a LGB site, but that trans people are welcomed and accepted. At times though, cis people get silenced, shut down, labelled, dismissed, disagreed with (about their own experience), demonised, completely misunderstood and vilified with stupid cisphobic humour by certain trans nutters. There is no need for trans people on this site to consistently denigrate the LGBs with their homophobic and cisphobic comments - they should know better.

ammonite

ammonite said on the 23rd Mar, 2012



I can see I didn't make a clear written distinction between the facts I was presenting, my questions, ideas, discussion elicitors, opinions, and my feelings.


I really am sorry everyone. I didn't mean to be offensive or disrespectful. If you could just tell me what it is any of you would like me to do to make it up to you?



Once again; when I said that I felt it was mutilation, I meant that I have negative feelings - a mental and physical reaction - to thoughts of and discussions about SRS. It was not an opinion, or a statement of fact. That's why I said "I feel", not that "it is".

(Thinking about it I've realised that people sometimes misuse the word feel, but I don't, and I don't know why I should be punished for other people's grammatical errors?)

I didn't present any evidence of it being mutilation, as I did and do for everything I present as a fact or opinion and frequently also for discussion elicitors.

I pointed out things I felt contributed to that feeling, like stories of intersex mutilation, and said how I was still having trouble not thinking of it in the same way - not feeling the same about SRS. Somehow people seem to have thought I was attempting to link the two in some kind of factual or evidentiary way? But I don't see how that is possible or makes any sense at all?

Again the reason I talked about my feelings was that I wanted to be able to see it in other ways and reframe it in my mind.
I still don't really understand how that was not apparent. Why would anyone tell someone, without being asked, they feel badly unless they were asking for help to change that feeling?

I brought my feelings up because they seemed relevant to the discussion about second wave feminism, because I assume that is how they also feel about it as either they create theories based on those feelings or attitudes, or the feelings or attitudes would be created by the theories. I thought discussion of this would be the point of this thread.


Also when I said it should possibly be discouraged, that was because of the evidence I had presented - the studies - that appear to show long term dissatisfaction and/or lack of improvement in dysphoria.
However I did also acknowledge when Dat reminded me of the huge amount of suffering occurring, that waiting to find out if those studies are accurate or not is not an acceptable option either.
Thinking about it since then, it has occurred to me that to many people, (maybe even most people?) a short term relief from such huge suffering might actually feel well worth any return to suffering or later additional suffering experienced.



You can't assume that people can read your mind and intent. They have to read your WORDS, as such, you have to be careful about them.

....No. I'm telling her that what she says can be construed very differently from what she might think she's saying and she has to be careful, because from knowing her, she is SAYING something wildly different from what she's MEANING. Because we've had discussions like this at length in private before, and the way she expressed herself then was very different, and the meaning out of it was not offensive, rather thought provoking. I can make excuses for that and say "oh well I know what she means" but not everyone here does. So ME making excuses for what she actually means vs what she's saying is meaningless.

I considered everyone I was talking to a friend. I thought everyone knew me. (I did forget that SeaMist is new and I'm very sorry SeaMist.) and I thought I could talk about my feelings here without being judged.

I don't understand why none of my friends told me I was doing the wrong thing.
It has become apparent that several people were discussing it and debating what I meant.
Why didn't anyone just ask me?
Then all of this behind the scenes discussion or patience or whatever it was - it suddenly and violently ran out. I didn't get any warning signs. People started screaming at me in private messages, posting facebook statuses which I am left paranoid and unsure as to whether they are about me or possibly passive aggressive messages to me or not, or some have just stopped speaking to me all together.

But if you were in my shoes, if the situation was reversed, with any of you, I would have asked you what you meant, told you at the beginning you weren't expressing yourself well or that you weren't coming across in an acceptable way. because I would have wanted to know! and because I would have wanted you to have the chance to make it right. to realise you were hurting people's feelings and in enough time that you could still mend them, and to avoid this social ostracism I am once again experiencing.

I seem to be incapable of doing this.

It has surprised me as I did think I was fairly OK, or at least acceptable, at existing in online digital society. Obviously once again I was very very wrong.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 23rd Mar, 2012

people dont say anything because Transphobia is accepted in mainstream society as ok. So when person is being transphobic, generally people wont challenge them.

as I said SS is a hotbed for transphobia. It happens alot of SS,

Telling trans and intersex people that what they do is mutilation is un acceptable. If you feel like saying it dont, STFU :) you are talking about stuff you dont understand and when you get it wrong you piss people off and hurt there feelings. So either do a Masters on it or just leave it alone. Take our word for it and understand that surgery is better then death. There are things about gay that doesn't make sense to me but I am not going to tare it apart on SS as I know it will piss people off.

trying walking in our shoes, IF YOU CAN HANDLE IT

imo most would curl up and scream for mummy.
Irene suggests that trans folk only have visitor status on SS
Ash thinks he is an expert and likes to lecture trans people on being trans. lol

then there's all the random accumulation of idiots like badadam and wisy and others who are just downright flat out transphobic but still remains on SS pedling his vile attitudes.


Does SS have a future with the trans community???????

Well you know what thats up to SS to take the initiative and take a hard line on transphobia. Do your JOB same same. I dont know if there is a future its not up to me.

Its seems we have some success with the Trans Media Style Guide and we are happy its being used however in SS's capacity as the moderator they have failed to not only recognise transphobia but act on it accordingly and fairly. As far as I know, no one has been banned from SS for transphobia.

This is very bad for SS

you need to pick up your game, you should treat transphobia as you treat homophobia. But you dont. WHY?

SS if you want to be open, trans accepting and inclusive then you really need to pick up the game and "stamp out transphobia" on SS. If you dont then like everywhere else atm trans people will come in here on mass and bring it to its knees. We just did this with queerty because of the same thing.

Now SS its your responsibility to deal with transphobia in a fair and equitable that is equal to any punishment handed out for homophobia on SS. If gay people are being transphobic (and it happens all the time) then its still transphobia and should be treated as such.

Now before anyone jumps on to the defence wagon, dont. We are not messing around and there is no defence for transphobia and if you are gay and being transphobic then shame on you and you cant continue without being challenged by our communities. One thing trans people learn is we stand up for each other because we know cis people generally wont.

There are 238 more comments. View them all