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Image for Mardi Gras regrets name change 'cheat'

Mardi Gras regrets name change'cheat'

The Board of Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras say they don’t believe their festival’s name-change to Sydney Mardi Gras was a mistake, but today apologised for not adequately consulting their members before making the polarising decision.

At a ‘Community Information Session’ meeting this afternoon in Darlinghurst, the entire Board faced criticism from many of the fifty people assembled.

The attendees had several concerns about the name change, which has especially angered those with a long history with the festival, and those who see the ‘gay and lesbian’ brand as vital for visibility.

Though the cover of Sydney Mardi Gras’ official 2012 guide welcomed “lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer and intersex pride,” the official name change meant NSW Premier Barry O’Farrell’s message inside did not actually mention LGBT people specifically, pointed out an attendee who added “in changing the name, you’ve lost me.”

“I feel betrayed,” said another, who pressed the Board on how much community and membership consultation had happened. Images of Mardi Gras are “beamed around the world,” came another comment. “It’s a beacon. And when we lose the name, we lose the point.”

A couple of Mardi Gras Board speakers said the name change happened to better welcome those of a younger generation less bound by traditional sexuality ‘labels’. But one attendee reminded the meeting that local LGBTI youth support network Twenty10’s Managing Director Rebecca Reynolds had spoken out strongly against the rebrand.

Not everyone reacted badly to the name change however – some at the meeting agreed with the move, while one attendee pointed out that the same situation happened back in 2003 but was reversed after similar community outrage.

“We need to look to the future”

As the meeting wrapped up, the Mardi Gras Board thanked the assembled crowd for their impassioned views, and sought to reassure all there that Mardi Gras “is still a fully fledged LGBTIQ festival, put on by an LGBTIQ organisation.”

“We haven’t changed what our parade and festival will look like,” added Mardi Gras Chair Pete Urmson. “We just want to it be bigger, bolder, stronger and better.”

“Will you admit you’ve made a mistake with how you’ve made this change – and are you sorry?” said the next questioner. “We feel we’ve been cheated on.”

Mardi Gras CEO Michael Rolik answered. “We don’t think we’ve made a mistake with the name change. But I think we could’ve done a better job in the process – and I make an apology if you feel cheated.”

Urmson added that Mardi Gras will explore options for addressing the naming concerns in the new year before the 2012 festival begins.

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Comments

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DavoJimbo

DavoJimbo said on the 19th Dec, 2011

Can we end this cat fight now? I wanna get to the make up sex ! meeeowww

smilinggoat

smilinggoat said on the 19th Dec, 2011

While I can understand the negative comments and feelings from a lot of people towards the rebranding, I think this could be a positive step to making the parade a lot more inclusive and accessible to those who should really be inside the community, but don't identify with any of labels we use to identify people within it.

The SGLMG board is made up of elected representatives, that is, people elected by the membership; people who have been prepared to sacrifice their time to try and make this organisation the best it can be, and to stand up in the fight for equality and acceptance.

SGLMG has a charter of what is required before a change like this is undertaken, and this was adhered to. If you don't like it, and you actually give a damn, join the organisation, suggest a change, work for it. No one at Mardi Gras is out to get you.

If you don't like it, and you want this event to continue, maybe it's time to stump up and do something about it.

Having worked with Mardi Gras as a working group volunteer for a number of years, and sat on boards for other community organisations, all I can see is a team of incredibly dedicated and hard working staff and board members who want the best for the community, and I would be interested to know which people who have commented here would be prepared to give even 1 hour of their week (and believe me, staff [yes, staff at Mardi Gras put in a shed load of unpaid overtime], vollies and the board of MG donate a hell of a lot more time than 1 hour a week) for very little reward to try and keep this event going

If you genuinely don't care one way of the other, or this event/organisation is not your cup of tea, that's fine, although I would be curious to know which rallies you've attended, which MPs you've written to or what else you've done to help the cause for equality and acceptance.

Please don't let your negativity cloud this issue for people who have a genuine interest in delivering one of the worlds premiere LGBTIQ festivals, as part of an over all strategy fighting for equality, and celebrating our fabulous community - I'm not saying that just because one doesn't actively participate in the organisation they haven't a right to an opinion, however, please remember that the people who do put in the effort and time are doing their very best to make the event the best LGBTIQ event in the world, and the most effective platform to celebrate our achievements, and work towards equal rights for all.

mark_

mark_ said on the 19th Dec, 2011

http://www.justusboys.com/forum/images/smilie/eusa_boohoo.gif

Dear goat; thank you for telling us about all your sacrifice and your pain of low wages and no wages. But please don't continue being a martyr on my behalf. It's not gay anymore. The only thing worth saving is Fair Day.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 19th Dec, 2011

The best LGBTQ event in the world? Please. Soon it'll be just another street party- straight.

So you can continue to 'donate' your time to the 'definitely not gay' parade, but don't expect any pats on the back from the people you left behind.

mark_

mark_ said on the 19th Dec, 2011

Most businesses have a business plan which accounts for their assets and goodwill.

I wonder how the current young entrepreneurs on the MG Board see theirs.

WE are their assets and the current board is rapidly killing off all the goodwill.

neal james

neal james said on the 20th Dec, 2011

oh come on people- you are talking about a few words being required for something that is a demonstration!

does every queer bar require the words "gay & lesbian" in the title?

when you introduce yourself at a party, do you say "hi, i'm GAY & LESBIAN steve/becky/xander"?

NOBODY who attends or reads more than the first line of any mardi gras promotion could be in any doubt as to the flavour of mardis gras. i'm sure after this fiasco there will no doubt be a military-precision level screning of any participants for even a whiff of hetero-normativity.

& the whole whingeing about tourists not knowing it's G&L MG is redundant:

if they're not straight, they KNOW already. if they are straight & somehow don't know this & they tumble into a massive, oily, great column of engorged bi/trans/intersex/lesbian/gay bodies marching into their faces, then that is good exposure, no?

i think straight people should be allowed to celebrate gayness & their queer friends & family. for the millionth time, if you really fear being mis-represented at MG, then get along & represent yourself, or get on the committee & enforce glitter & crisco encrusted shoulder length latex gloves as mandatory costume for all participants & sponsors next year.

otherwise just get on your big gay, doom-laden "the end is nigh for queerness @mardi gras" inscribed sandwich-board, & stand on the footpath ringing your bell while the world passes you by.

mark_

mark_ said on the 20th Dec, 2011

^
we're not JUST whingeing about the wording. I'm also whingeing about the fact that the party is no longer gay. I and Jesse Matheson agree that the parade is just for straight bogans now. I'm also whingeing about the ever-changing board's record of incompetence and their guilt-tripping in this thread.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

I had always thought the point of everything that had gone before was to reach that point where everyone (we) were accepted?

People need to remember you can't always have your cake and eat it.

mark_

mark_ said on the 20th Dec, 2011

^
what does that mean?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

^
what does that mean?

It means seeking acceptance has to imply you accept the consequences of being accepted. You can't celebrate the fact you are accepted for being special and different and at the same time complain that people treat you differently because you're special and different.

You'll like anything if you think your getting a root out of it. You disgust me flounder... almost as much as I disgust myself.. .where's badamj btw?

talk about disgust...

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

Let the dead bury the dead

KateDee

KateDee said on the 20th Dec, 2011

Will a few of you gays just hush it already? You would have gotten angry if it'd been changed to the "Sydney LGBTIQ Mardi Gras" as a few of you would have gone "I'm GAY, I'm NOT an LGBTIQ!!" Oh Phllluuuuzzeee!!! =P

You wanted more equality, and now you have got it. An LGBTIQ event, which has an equality-focused name & by-line. A name which doesn't hide Trans, Bi, Intersex and Queer people behind a Gay and Lesbian banner. It also re-brands it in a way which will eventually help it get away from it's drug riddled culture as well.

Thank goodness the Transphobes, Biphobes, Intersex-phobes and Queer-phobes have been silenced and a name which is more inclusive (with an LGBTIQ by-line) has been adopted. It's a step forward for an equality movement which has been way too narrow for far too long. It doesn't mean things will be less gay or "camp" in some cases, though it'll help give an equal voice to the other parts of the LGBTIQ community that the small minority of gays & lesbians who are obnoxious drown out.

Events need respectability nowadays in order to survive, and having a name change that keeps the LGBTIQ identity in place (while promoting it further), while divorcing it from the drug culture that had tarnished it before is most definitely a step forward.

CeeJay

CeeJay said on the 20th Dec, 2011

Kinda speechless after that, so will let couple of wise ladies respond...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLpRrt5Zgcg

flounder

flounder said on the 20th Dec, 2011



Thats the first smart thing youve said since you blew into town, unlike me

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011



You're wrong. I've never said anything smart since I blew into town. It's all an illusion flounder but nobody seems to care.

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

You on the other hand wouldn't know smart from Smarties so I'll pretend to be flattered.

CeeJay

CeeJay said on the 20th Dec, 2011

We can't expect equality if we're different? Really? Is that what Mardi Gras is about now?

I really wish the Mardi Gras leadership would release a consistent and unambiguous statement about the name change, as there still seems to be a lot of misinformation.

If they were serious about engaging the community, I don't think a meeting at 10am on the Saturday before Christmas is the way to do it. It's interesting they didn't mention it on their facebook, or in the forums here. It appears they're ok with leaving a lot of people behind.

I hope enough of the people who don't like labels are going to buy party tickets this year :)

Barrin

Barrin said on the 20th Dec, 2011

It must be 20 years since my first MG and I moved to Sydney 15 years ago. The gripe in those days was that too many straights were attending and changing the character of events... Quite at odds with the claim now that we need to encourage them! But for those of us who were around then we know that MG was THE event to go to. Words like gay and lesbian wasn't putting people off. So what has really changed?

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

I edited my post and it still doesn't make sense. I gotta lay off the methadone.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 20th Dec, 2011



Such a Methodist Adelaide thing to say :)

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

I would just like to mention that while it's nice to talk about parties and so on.

Originally this event is a protest march.

It seems no one has anything to complain about here.
Is this the message the new Straight Mardi Gras would like to put forward.

We've been visible enough. Now it's time to give the straight people a moment to shine.
Because fuck- having everyday on this planet- well it just obviously isn't enough

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

This is not about being special.

This is about making them acknowledge that we are here. That we are not going away

And we want our rights

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

http://whofstore.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/005-WHF-N.jpg

Yet Mardi Gras has surrendered

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011



I know, isn't it just soooooo me and typical. ;)


LOL!

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

http://whofstore.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/005-WHF-N.jpg

Yet Mardi Gras has surrendered
I don't do politics; I don't care, I'm just here for the buffet *badamj hands me a prawn*

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

In your life.

You deal with these politics everyday.

You just don't realise

Lazzarus

Lazzarus said on the 20th Dec, 2011

Whether or not anything is meaningful for me; whether or not I care or choose to care the result is the same. We all die and not even the most important memory will remain. *reaches for prawn*

MaxL

MaxL said on the 20th Dec, 2011

So KateDee, the path to visibility, acceptance and equality is to be relegated to a byline consisting of a six letter acronymn? This event is an in-your- face protest march at its core. HTF will Bruce&Magde from Wop Wop know what 'LGBTQI' means when they stumble upon a group of topless women on bikes if it's not framed with those two words 'Gay and Lesbian' ?

You seem to make the same mistake as the straight conservative crowd of associating gay and lesbian with drug use. Changing the name of the event will help get rid of the drug culture? How? I guess straight people don't take drugs at straight events.

By all means make the event inclusive but don't ask me to shut up about what losing my visibilty means to me or whats important to the people who fought for this.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011



The transient nature of this universe and it's meaningless nature is what makes life livable to me.

However- I will not concede or be silent while they sell of our struggle, while we still are being killed by "them" .

Something terrible has been allowed to happen and they are selling cowardice and concession as evolution and progress.

They no longer shake the devils hand.

They are the devil

Husky-D

Husky-D said on the 20th Dec, 2011



I agree. The Party is supposed to be the biggest profit-maker I believe. I feel that the two words "gay & lesbian" in the name is not the reason why people don't go. There're many parties happening every year, gay and straight, people may feel that they don't have to go to the MG one. And there're so many other ways to have fun too. Perhaps the Party needs to change, adapt and be innovative to attract more patrons. I mean if it's always the same old same old stuff people will eventually get tired. If they're able to invite some big stars people might really wanna go, but big stars are expensive -_-

So many parties and entertainments out there, the competition is fierce.

The name change and rebranding seem like to be the methods that SGLMG is currently using to attract more party-goers, though I'm not fully convinced it's the right path to take as the true reasons may not lie in the words "gay & lesbian".

I think Fair Day has always been very popular and successful? If it shows people are all right with the name "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Fair Day" , then why are they put off by the name "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Party"?

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 20th Dec, 2011

OMFG. It's a dog. And it's wearing a hat sideways.

Lets put it in the parade

Phazz

Phazz said on the 20th Dec, 2011

Straight people don't take drugs or abuse alcohol. That's the one thing I notice when I walk around Sydney at night or go to music festivals such as Big Day Out, Field Day, Park Life, Stereosonic, Homebake, Future Music Festival, Sydney Festival First Night and others in similar vain.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 20th Dec, 2011

I agree. The Party is supposed to be the biggest profit-maker I believe. I feel that the two words "gay & lesbian" in the name is not the reason why people don't go. There're many parties happening every year, gay and straight, people may feel that they don't have to go to the MG one. And there're so many other ways to have fun too. Perhaps the Party needs to change, adapt and be innovative to attract more patrons. I mean if it's always the same old same old stuff people will eventually get tired. If they're able to invite some big stars people might really wanna go, but big stars are expensive -_-

So many parties and entertainments out there, the competition is fierce.

The name change and rebranding seem like to be the methods that SGLMG is currently using to attract more party-goers, though I'm not fully convinced it's the right path to take as the true reasons may not lie in the words "gay & lesbian".

I think Fair Day has always been very popular and successful? If it shows people are all right with the name "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Fair Day" , then why are they put off by the name "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras Party"?

20 years back as others have posted the Party was the only big party so everyone went. Then other parties started to compete and it felt like NMG just rolled over instead of competing eg Toybox , having a day party on the Sunday as the Halls still all decked out etc. So numbers dropped and the other parties became hugely popular.

But people still wanted their free events like Fair Day. I'm glad they introduced the bucket drop to at least get some $.s back.

It annoys me when they go on about getting away from drug/alcohol culture. Its one night out of 2-3 weeks of
non drug/alcohol events especially Fair Day etc. But the Parade is what gets the media in , not nice family events
like Fair Day.........maybe NMG can work on that ? Party gets around 15,000 if they are lucky and Fair Day is around 70,000. They are my 2 favourite events along with Queer Screen.

Beau

Beau said on the 21st Dec, 2011

The irony is, is that as the chair wants MG to be " bigger, bolder, stronger and better". Maybe a more realistic aspiration should be on the cards. In aspiring to be all those words they have simply become smaller, paler, weaker and worse!

Husky-D

Husky-D said on the 21st Dec, 2011

20 years back as others have posted the Party was the only big party so everyone went. Then other parties started to compete and it felt like NMG just rolled over instead of competing eg Toybox , having a day party on the Sunday as the Halls still all decked out etc. So numbers dropped and the other parties became hugely popular.

But people still wanted their free events like Fair Day. I'm glad they introduced the bucket drop to at least get some $.s back.

It annoys me when they go on about getting away from drug/alcohol culture. Its one night out of 2-3 weeks of
non drug/alcohol events especially Fair Day etc. But the Parade is what gets the media in , not nice family events
like Fair Day.........maybe NMG can work on that ? Party gets around 15,000 if they are lucky and Fair Day is around 70,000. They are my 2 favourite events along with Queer Screen.

Yup yup. See the name is not the reason why people don't go!

KateDee

KateDee said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

So KateDee, the path to visibility, acceptance and equality is to be relegated to a byline consisting of a six letter acronymn? This event is an in-your- face protest march at its core. HTF will Bruce&Magde from Wop Wop know what 'LGBTQI' means when they stumble upon a group of topless women on bikes if it's not framed with those two words 'Gay and Lesbian' ?

You seem to make the same mistake as the straight conservative crowd of associating gay and lesbian with drug use. Changing the name of the event will help get rid of the drug culture? How? I guess straight people don't take drugs at straight events.

By all means make the event inclusive but don't ask me to shut up about what losing my visibilty means to me or whats important to the people who fought for this.

How The F*** do you think Trans & Intersex people are identified then? 20+ years or so of not being listed in the main part of the name and we get along just fine, Max. I'm sure gays & lesbians will be fine too, given that Mardi Gras in Australia is synonymous with everything that is camp-gay under the sun. :D

Or are you sore because Transpeople are getting the same level of attention as gays for once, not including Drag Queens? :rolleyes:

Also did I really make the mistake that wingnut right-wingers make, Max? Have a look at a lot of lesbian and gay youth in rural parts of Oz, while also have a look at a lot of inner- Sydney venues over the past 15 years, particularly in the Oxford St area. Sure people of all persuasions take a LOT of drugs, though given the history of Mardi Gras it's developed a reputation which is perhaps unwarranted now, though would have been a decade or so ago. Rebooting the image of Mardi Gras is a good thing in that regard.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

OMFG. It's a dog. And it's wearing a hat sideways.

Lets put it in the parade

Nah, it looks a bit too gay to be in the parade.

I believe this year the parade will be made up of some battery hens (remember them from last year? At least they won't have to pretend to be gay anymore) and a couple of delusioned trannies who haven't yet realised that rather than this being some kind of victory for them it's just made them a much smaller proportion of a much larger community.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

I think we should name the parade after me. This is the only logical and diplomatic solution. I may require a fee of course.

KateDee

KateDee said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

Nah, it looks a bit too gay to be in the parade.

I believe this year the parade will be made up of some battery hens (remember them from last year? At least they won't have to pretend to be gay anymore) and a couple of delusioned trannies who haven't yet realised that rather than this being some kind of victory for them it's just made them a much smaller proportion of a much larger community.

If you want to be a dick, then good riddance from the Mardi Gras then. Take your Transphobia with you on the way out the door.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

No, it's not transphobia. I can quite genuinely say I accept trans people in exactly the same way as I accept anybody else. Their medical history makes absolutely no difference to me.

But, I am fed up with the way DAT comes on here making demands and constantly abusing and being offensive to gay men. The only person that is putting any walls up between the gay and lesbian members on here and yourself is you. With the exception of one or two notable exceptions (who are always put into their place by non-trans members) there is no transphobia on Samesame. But you come on here ranting andraving and accusing the entire gay and lesbian community of being out to get you.

So be very clear. My post was not anti-trans, it was anti DAT (and her new ring in). And report away honey. If my one post is considered transphobic and offensive I still think it pales into insignificance against the stream of abusive posts you have to your name.

And as to the meaning of my previous post. Since the name change you have made a number of snide comments about how gays and lesbians are now dealing with what you have always face. What you don't seem to realise is that you are no more represented in the new name than gays and lesbians. Sure, they've back peddled now and added the alphabet in small type, but that was only after the outcry after the name was changed. This isn't about making MG more inclusive for trans people, it's about opening up the parade to a wider, non-gay, lesbian, trans etc etc population before it goes the way of every other gay institution and venue in our brave new world of acceptance. So your smugness is a little misplaced.

*Que DAT telling me to get a fucking clue*

mark_

mark_ said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

^
(no one has commented on that 'trans poem' http://www.samesame.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=26143)

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

And as long as you continue to label any personal criticism of you as transphobia the longer you'll continue to alienate people to your cause.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

you know how many trans* people will see this?

does it even bother that your bad language is fucked up.

nah sorry I'm not skipping around the issue transphobia anymore.

stop it, clean up your language or go somewhere where you can do it at your whim. But not here.

thats very cool,

just a little history lesson, us Aussie "trannies" love being trannies. The word tranny is obviously a derivative of transsexual or even transvestite. In Sydney in the 70's transsexuals, cross dressers and drag queens (show girls) worked together and the term tranny was coined as an "inclusive" term.

Back in the day they were all drags, transsexuals and drag queens. Some were gay men some were trans.

fast forward to now

somewhere along the road it became a derogative term and Americans, Brits, Europeans and all other trans communities world wide bar us, don't like the word tranny.

I'm ok with it however it seems many aren't, so I try and use it only when referring to myself and or close friends.

but yall can call me a tranny but it may upset others?

:o


and yes I'm obviously not the only tranny on the block.

Would help if you didn't keep changing the rules to suit the particular circumstance.

"nah sorry I'm not skipping around the issue transphobia anymore."

You really do live in your own little world don't you?

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

Which is an American poster which was just under your comment that while American trans women don't like being called trannies Australian trans women "love being trannies".

But I apologise if tranny is offensive to you this week. Maybe a weekly memo letting us know what is and isn't offensive for that week would help to avoid these misunderstandings.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

you can call me what you want but when you include others I am not going to sit by and be quiet.

I am sorry I attacked you that way but you need to at least try. I am sick of repeating myself.

Our communities aren't perfect but you need to understand that what you write in regards to Trans* people is seen by others who will probably never come back. For this reason SS is a bit of a joke in T circles and I would like to see that change given I've been here for nearly 4 years and feel I have a right to speak up and pull people up on it.

I still love you, but I will tell you.

btw just in case your thinking it, this is not me. So don't go there.

your words have an impact

And I do sincerely apologise if I was rude. Seriously DAT, with the exception of a few people who I mentioned before, nobody here is against you, or trans people generally. We're all on your side. But it does get a little tiring being lectured to and abused all the time for something that 99.999999999% of people on here aren't guilty of.

Truce.......sister :D

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

you are and you just cant see it can you?

pathetic

Oh Dat, you can be such a bitch ( well ALL the time really) please try to be nice :) Gay men are not your enemies...I agree with D2 here.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

Does your dick get in the way when you walk or go toy-toy princess?

enzyme

enzyme said on the 22nd Dec, 2011



I have noticed you do have a bit of a chip, I mean its understandable that you would but deal with it.

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

My tits and dick are bigger than you'res so get over it :)

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/375487_2652477863536_1003456955_32580062_654198011_n.jpg

for prosperity

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

Datkindagirl has opened my tiny mind to trans -issues and my own igorance of said issues. I still think that gay manz and trannies are more allies than enemies. I admire her fortitude and fabulousness. She is still a bitch but with valid mission . I salute her and all that such and such... Bite me :)

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

quick call 1982, it wants its humour back

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

1982 wants its gender-politics back too

mark_

mark_ said on the 22nd Dec, 2011

This thread is getting off-topic.

This thread is about the young entrepreneurs of the Mardi Gras Board going for the mass market and the bug bucks. They don't care about minorities and political purity and being inoffensive.

runic

runic said on the 23rd Dec, 2011

I am all for the change but what do I know I am only a new guy lol. Trans, Bi, queer or the unlabeled should celebrate the things that make them that they don't feel safe showing on every other day of the year be it that they wear x style of clothes or sleep with such and such types we should celebrate and remember the variety of our community not the label of the party we where at? ps sorry if my rushed and random comment makes no sense lol

Beau

Beau said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Sad, lonely and desperate measures to suit most out there.

Beau

Beau said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Oh, i just got a warning that what I have written is a duplicate post. I am so scared. Or is that scarred? Like it is important. Same same means so much to me. I wish it did. It is a bunch of secretary's sitting in the office of Derwood thinking they can make a difference.

Beau

Beau said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Endora?

typing,typing, typing.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Most businesses have a business plan which accounts for their assets and goodwill.

I wonder how the current young entrepreneurs on the MG Board see theirs.

WE are their assets and the current board is rapidly killing off all the goodwill.

That's a good way of looking at it.

Unfirtunately I think that gay people don't care about community, so long as there's hot guys there they'll be there - even if those hot guys are chanting "faggot faggot faggot!!". (see the porn thread)

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011



The name change was not about including bi amd trans people. If it was they wouldve just added BT to the name.

The change was about including straight people (just look at Shelly Argents media comments about parents) because there are alot more straight people around and thus MG thinks they will come to the parties and financially save MG when the reality is that their fundraising model is out of date and only GLBT people will be able to save them. Lots of Gs & Ls have been pissed off with them so they will find themselves in trouble very quickly.

I for one won't be volunteering this time around. And I've written to the board to tell them so. Just one persons volunteering efforts can be worth hundreds of dollars so they'll need to find 2 or 3 straight peole to turn up to the party just to balance out me not being there.

And I'm not the only oissed off volunteer. You cant dismiss your core constituency and not have some kind of repercussions down the line.

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

No, it's not transphobia. I can quite genuinely say I accept trans people in exactly the same way as I accept anybody else. Their medical history makes absolutely no difference to me.

But, I am fed up with the way DAT comes on here making demands and constantly abusing and being offensive to gay men. The only person that is putting any walls up between the gay and lesbian members on here and yourself is you. With the exception of one or two notable exceptions (who are always put into their place by non-trans members) there is no transphobia on Samesame. But you come on here ranting andraving and accusing the entire gay and lesbian community of being out to get you.

So be very clear. My post was not anti-trans, it was anti DAT (and her new ring in). And report away honey. If my one post is considered transphobic and offensive I still think it pales into insignificance against the stream of abusive posts you have to your name.

And as to the meaning of my previous post. Since the name change you have made a number of snide comments about how gays and lesbians are now dealing with what you have always face. What you don't seem to realise is that you are no more represented in the new name than gays and lesbians. Sure, they've back peddled now and added the alphabet in small type, but that was only after the outcry after the name was changed. This isn't about making MG more inclusive for trans people, it's about opening up the parade to a wider, non-gay, lesbian, trans etc etc population before it goes the way of every other gay institution and venue in our brave new world of acceptance. So your smugness is a little misplaced.

*Que DAT telling me to get a fucking clue*

1. I'm not a "ring-in". I'm a person who was just reading the website and got pissed off enough that I signed up so I could post. I don't have a clue as to who DAT is, nor do I care to be honest.

2. It's not excusable for Gay people to think they can get away with saying whatever they like about Transpeople, especially when they'd get shitty if similar things were said about themselves.

For example, if somebody said that "Only a few Delusional Fags would think that the Conscience vote would be defeated at the ALP National conference", I dare say you would have been up in arms.

3. I disagree. There's been no attempt to "open up the parade" to non LGBTIQ people, and to suggest that a more inclusive name will cause that is a joke beyond all words. Having a more open atmosphere wouldn't hurt anyway, as at the very least it'd mean that there'd be more mainstream Trans-related events. "Drag Races" is nothing but an insult.




Where's the "personal criticism"? Again, "Delusional Trannies" is a broad statement that covers the entire group.








It's shit like this that pisses people off with a lot of gay men, not to mention a few lesbians. Similar comments about gays would result in you crying about homophobia until the cows come home.


The name change was not about including bi amd trans people. If it was they wouldve just added BT to the name.

The change was about including straight people (just look at Shelly Argents media comments about parents) because there are alot more straight people around and thus MG thinks they will come to the parties and financially save MG when the reality is that their fundraising model is out of date and only GLBT people will be able to save them. Lots of Gs & Ls have been pissed off with them so they will find themselves in trouble very quickly.

I for one won't be volunteering this time around. And I've written to the board to tell them so. Just one persons volunteering efforts can be worth hundreds of dollars so they'll need to find 2 or 3 straight peole to turn up to the party just to balance out me not being there.

And I'm not the only oissed off volunteer. You cant dismiss your core constituency and not have some kind of repercussions down the line.

It's only a few disillusioned gays who don't realize that Mardi Gras needs to move on from being a stereotypical event.

I'd rather have "Sydney Mardi Gras" than "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras", because at least then it gives equal treatment to everybody name-wise. It mightn't be perfect, though if somebody proposed that it be called the "Sydney Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transsexual, Intersex and Queer Mardi Gras", you'd have a few people crying blue murder over "alphabet soup." If somebody suggested that at the Mardi Gras AGM, they would get shouted down by people like you for making a mockery of a "gay-focused event".

The core constituency are our straight allies nowadays who come out to support us at such events, as they are the ones who spend more money just due to their numbers. As evidenced by the ALP National Conference having straight allies allies works, not flag waving and chanting after votes have been made. If making it so that it is easier for straight people to learn about LGBTIQ people, then I'm all for it even if it pisses off a few hard-core stereotypes who just want to lead the organisation into oblivion.

mark_

mark_ said on the 29th Dec, 2011

I’m trying to think of a suitable analogy for those wannabe-entrepreneurs on the current Mardi Gras Board.

1. Sir Henry Parkes was upset in 1888 that his state was losing prestige to the younger state of Victoria which was getting rich on money from the goldfields. So he and his cronies thought they could improve things by proposing that the state of New South Wales be renamed as ‘Australia’.

2. Pope Julius II was pleased that his devoted flock gave him complete subservience but they weren’t donating enough money into the offertory boxes. So he transforms himself into ‘The Warrior Pope’ to acquire the neighbouring provinces and acquire a larger and wealthier flock.

Or perhaps 3. The penniless mother who had so many children, she didn't know what to do. So she decides to ‘go on the game’ and lets the children be supported by strangers.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/378972_333485703348262_100000605041616_1291718_1514069874_n.jpg
:(

.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011



The core constituency are our straight allies nowadays who come out to support us at such events, as they are the ones who spend more money just due to their numbers.


you're joking right????

So aboriginal organisations should remove any refrences to "aboriginal" or "torres straight islander" in there titles as white people have more money by sheers numbers??

I thought perhaps we were guests at their events and not the core constituincy.

As evidenced by the ALP National Conference having straight allies allies works, not flag waving and chanting after votes have been made.




wow. You've made friends for life on here by dismissing all the "flag waving" that happened in the whole year in the lead up to the vote.

Which by the way is only a conscience vote. A bit like "I'll vote for you if I feel like it (not because I actually believe in you)". Hardly an ally.


If making it so that it is easier for straight people to learn about LGBTIQ people, then I'm all for it.

they won't be learning a thing about the GLBT community becuaee mardi GRAS will just be about them having a sexy time. All relevance to the gay community will be a sideline. All relevance to the trans community won't even be considered because straight people won't have even been exposed to the L, let alone the B or the T

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

you're joking right????

So aboriginal organisations should remove any refrences to "aboriginal" or "torres straight islander" in there titles as white people have more money by sheers numbers??

I thought perhaps we were guests at their events and not the core constituincy.

No, and if you would stop being so whiney you'd see that Gays are still represented in the name. ie celebrating Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex and Queer Pride. Nothing has been taken away by calling it the "Sydney Mardi Gras", given it's by-line. Nothing has been taken away by changing the name to reflect the entire LGBTIQ community, and it's a hell of a lot better and inclusive than simply "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras", which suggests that Gender Diverse people don't exist.

wow. You've made friends for life on here by dismissing all the "flag waving" that happened in the whole year in the lead up to the vote.

Which by the way is only a conscience vote. A bit like "I'll vote for you if I feel like it (not because I actually believe in you)". Hardly an ally.

Did you notice a single Trans or Intersex reference in all of that flag waving by AME, GetUp!, NSW-GLRL and CAAH? There was ZIP! Both GetUp! and AME have stated that they refuse to advocate for Gender Identity in Marriage Equality, because it's "Too complex and confuses people". The only groups that actually caused anything to happen were the ones actively engaged in the ALP, such as Rainbow Labor. Funnily enough, they were the only ones to actively push for gender identity in any way, shape or form during that event.

Given that Marriage Equality will affect the Gender Diverse as much as it will Same Sex couples, you've got to wonder why people from those other groups weren't willing to openly support (or at the very least acknowledge) Trans & Intersex people.



It's already mostly about having a "sexy time", so I don't see why you are carrying on like this. There's only a handful of academic/arts events, with the rest of it being full of parties, drinks, drugs and drag. Why not an LGBTIQ Film Festival throughout that period, or Fair Day running for multiple days? Why not something family-friendly, other than just Fair Day? Unless you are into Drag, alcohol/drugs and partying, there's next to nothing that makes Mardi Gras stand out and nothing which helps LGBTIQ people who aren't camp-crazy. Also unless there's something hidden away, there's no Trans-related events whatsoever.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011



Why not an LGBTIQ Film Festival throughout that period

this one sentence shows that you know nothing about mardi gras.

There is a 2.5 week film festival.

Has been for more than 20 years. It's even got the word queer in it's name.

And since the demise of old mardi gras in 2002, all the festival events barring the big events have been organised by community groups.

So if there are no gender diverse events it's because no gender diverse community groups are putting events on for their community.

But I suggest u look again because there are definately events on for gender diverse people.

Ps. U might want to look in by lines. Just because it's nor stated in the title doesn't mean it's not in there. Oh the irony!!

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 29th Dec, 2011

So, I'm confused. What is about same sex marriage that excludes trans people?

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

this one sentence shows that you know nothing about mardi gras.

There is a 2.5 week film festival.

Has been for more than 20 years. It's even got the word queer in it's name.

And since the demise of old mardi gras in 2002, all the festival events barring the big events have been organised by community groups.

So if there are no gender diverse events it's because no gender diverse community groups are putting events on for their community.

But I suggest u look again because there are definately events on for gender diverse people.

Ps. U might want to look in by lines. Just because it's nor stated in the title doesn't mean it's not in there. Oh the irony!!

I said LGBTIQ Film Festival, not Gay Camp film festival. Queer Screen are the jokers who played that "Ticked Off Trannies With Knives" film, afterall. eg - queerscreenDOTcomDOTau/event/250/ Screening just gay comedies and dramas doesn't make an event a "Festival".

Also whoever the admin was who put the 2 week restriction on the ability of new members to post links needs to rethink that stupid idea.

shazzboy

shazzboy said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Well as an Asexualist I feel excluded too! Asexual Pride!

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011



I said that flag waving is useless when JayTee started his "Core Constituency" nonsense, then gave the ALP National Conference as an example. In the protest outside plus all the chest-beating over the previous year, there wasn't a single reference made to Gender Diverse people and how marriage equality will affect them. GetUp!, AME, CAAH, NSW GLRL and all the others who organised that rally are a joke, not to mention the gays who are kicking up a stink about the Mardi Gra's new name and by-line.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

I said LGBTIQ Film Festival, not Gay Camp film festival. Queer Screen are the jokers who played that "Ticked Off Trannies With Knives" film, afterall. eg - queerscreenDOTcomDOTau/event/250/ Screening just gay comedies and dramas doesn't make an event a "Festival".



are you sure you are not dat? I initially assumed you weren't because your posts weren't as disjointed and as rambling as hers, but now I'm not so sure.




Also whoever the admin was who put the 2 week restriction on the ability of new members to post links needs to rethink that stupid idea.

It's actually quite standard across most discussion forums, gay or straight.

It's to stop soammers from just using the forums to advertise products.

Dont take it personally.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 29th Dec, 2011




Kate is under the deluded assumption that the mardi Gras board dropped the GL from the name in order to make the Bs & Ts feel more included.

I wish that was the case.

Unfirtunately it's all about the Ss which have never been a part of our alphabet soup.

Ps. You'll notice that it's not called a same sec marriage rally, but a marriage equality rally. There is no reference to sexuality or gender (a bit like mardi gras).

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011

are you sure you are not dat? I initially assumed you weren't because your posts weren't as disjointed and as rambling as hers, but now I'm not so sure.



It's actually quite standard across most discussion forums, gay or straight.

It's to stop soammers from just using the forums to advertise products.

Dont take it personally.

I haven't a clue as to who DAT is, so I'm dead sure. Also when arguing online, things are bound to get disjointed.

Also I frequent a lot of forums and that type of restriction is rare.

Kate is under the deluded assumption that the mardi Gras board dropped the GL from the name in order to make the Bs & Ts feel more included.

I wish that was the case.

Unfirtunately it's all about the Ss which have never been a part of our alphabet soup.

Ps. You'll notice that it's not called a same sec marriage rally, but a marriage equality rally. There is no reference to sexuality or gender (a bit like mardi gras).

I said that I prefered the new name and that it'd be stupid to go back to the old one. I didn't say why they did it, though I did say why I prefered the change.

Also given that the organisations that organised that event silenced any attempt to raise Gender Diverse quires about marriage equality, it was for all intents and purposes a same sex event. Check the websites and resources of all of the ones involved. You won't find a single document or anything supporting Trans or Intersex people's rights at all. In that regard, the silence is very much like the attempts made by some gays to exclude gender diverse people from LGBTIQ culture, by ensuring that Mardi Gras reverts to it's outdated and exclusionary former name.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 29th Dec, 2011

As opposed to the new name, which excludes all of us.

KateDee

KateDee said on the 29th Dec, 2011



Ah yes... I forgot that some only view equality as a "gays and lesbians only" affair. :p

It's funny how soo many gays and lesbians can get soo shitty when the name of an event gets changed.... Or as I said earlier, is it simply because Gay & Lesbian is alongside Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex & Queer now? :rolleyes:

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 29th Dec, 2011

Isn't it awesome to cut off your nose- just to spite your face

KateDee

KateDee said on the 30th Dec, 2011




Oh really? :rolleyes:

So I'm "Cutting my nose off to spite my face", after being attacked on here for suggesting that a name that is now inclusive (albeit not on purpose) should be changed to something exclusionary? By saying that you guys want it changed to "Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras", you are sweeping the rest of the community under the carpet.

I hope that when the AGM comes along that somebody proposes that the event be called the "Sydney Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Intersex and Queer Mardi Gras", as it'll showcase just how hypocritical about equality some people are, when they bring up the "Alphabet Soup" complaints about names.

mark_

mark_ said on the 30th Dec, 2011

Oh really? :rolleyes:

So I'm "Cutting my nose off to spite my face", …

No he's saying the wannabes on the MG Board are 'Cutting off their nose to spite their face'.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 30th Dec, 2011



it always was a glbt event. Stop living in the early to mid 90s.

There are lots of events that are for everyone (even straight people).

There are lots of mens events were transmen are perfectly welcome and do participate. I can't speak for womens events, as obviously I don't attend those.

I suggest u get out there and enjoy what's on, you might find there are more people on your side that you think there are.

Ps. I still think u might be dat, but that's ok, an argument is an argment no matter who raises the points (valid or otherwise).

JayTee

JayTee said on the 30th Dec, 2011



I reckon they mightve cut off their whole damn head.

Next years agm (or egm if people are organised enough) will be quite interesting. There'll be alot if stacking of the attendees on both sides which probably means we ll wind up with an unworkable hybrid board (a bit like the federal goverment) that makes compromises that offend no one but dont axtually do anything.

JayTee

JayTee said on the 30th Dec, 2011



after being attacked on here


you're not being attacked. It's a discussion forum. I don't know u from a bar of soap. I don't even know dat except on here.



for suggesting that a name that is now inclusive (albeit not on purpose)


It's not real commitment to the BT community on MGs part. Don't rely on them to back u because they've just got their eyes on the $$$$ (which the BT community doesn't have yhe numbers for).

don't rely on friends u don't have. They'll always disappoint you.

For all we know this "inclusive" stance that MG is currently presenting is only a cover up for some larger stuff up ( a bit like the parade party split 2 years ago was about bad planning insted of something experimental)


I'm not saying we should go back to the old name, I'm saying the new name is wrong and a backwards step (as opposed to a forwards step).


I hope that when the AGM comes along that somebody proposes that the event be called the "Sydney Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transsexual, Intersex and Queer Mardi Gras"

I'm sure someone will put that motion forward. And that would be a forwards step (as opposed to a backwards step).

If u believe that a GLBT MG is the way to go, then I suggest u start to get people together to help vote it into reality. And just a suggestion that my mother always told me: you catch more flies with honey than u do with vinegar.

I suggest u stop insulting peoples "flag waving" unless u want them to cut off your nose to spite MGs face. Between u and dat you're not making a good impression for the T community. Thankfully we have a wider group of people representing the T community in the real world which more than off sets that.

trina2004

trina2004 said on the 30th Dec, 2011

I don't think we should go back to the old name- how bout the queer mari gras or the LGBTQ mardi gras. Maybe you should take a deep breath and stop assuming your among enemies- I've always considered myself at least an ally.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 2nd Jan, 2012

Ah yes... I forgot that some only view equality as a "gays and lesbians only" affair. :p

It's funny how soo many gays and lesbians can get soo shitty when the name of an event gets changed.... Or as I said earlier, is it simply because Gay & Lesbian is alongside Bisexual, Transgender, Intersex & Queer now? :rolleyes:

yeah i hear you <3

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 2nd Jan, 2012

The Gay Inc's got their knickers in a twist over this. Wow it took that to snap you lot out of you're apathy regarding trans* issues. Well I am glad this happened now we can have the conversation about the elephant in the room.


transphobia, trans mysogyny, biphobia, inter phobia. yes Gay inc you have been guilty of:

*squandering our funding through trickle down economics.

*treating us with complete tokenism and not really taking the time to understand our issues

*dismissing and minimising our "real" issues

*launching trans related campaigns without consultation and getting it wrong.

*being refused entry to gay events

*unchallenged transphobia, trans mysogyny, biphobia, inter phobia on gay forums


2012 is the year we begin to sort this mess out.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 3rd Jan, 2012

And this is nothing personal.

I know some of the Mardi Gras people. They are active and hardworking people who care.

However.

This is a fucking huge mistake.
I see what was trying to be achieved. And I commend you on that. Mardi Gras was for a large part dismissive to trans and intersex issues. It's nice to see you make this gesture toward these communties who have often felt excluded.

But let's be real about this.

The words you guys and gals have deleted- are words that have not existed in the public sphere - in a positive form- for very long. This occured, because we made them say the words.

We have not come far enough in this battle to dismantle our weaponry. You have sold us out- and taken away all politics from this event. You have declawed yourselves and rendered yourself a kitten- for people to stick advertising posters on.

datkindagal

datkindagal said on the 3rd Jan, 2012

not changing it to something else wasn't an option.

dreadcircus

dreadcircus said on the 4th Jan, 2012

We need another epidemic to bring us together like the 80's... Cmon people don't worry about what the festival is called. It's our one chance a year to dance publicly half naked on tv and in the street whilst bogans line the streets awaiting the end to kick the crap out of a few select lucky people. Does it really matter what it's called??

Oh hang on I'm being insensitive to how individuals may feel. Maybe we should just call Mardi Gras... The 2013 poor mans Sydney festival clone.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 5th Jan, 2012

I suggest we change it to the Grand Pricks.

To reflect the personality of the current board

CeeJay

CeeJay said on the 5th Jan, 2012

It was interesting to see the Sydney tourism ads being played here in Melbourne - it basically seemed like Mardi Gras was an extension of Sydney Festival and Chinese New Year. Even the footage of an Asian drag queen made the nature of the parade ambiguous.

It was also interesting to see one of the more vocal supporters of the change complaining on facebook about the number of females and straight guys in gay venues.

mark_

mark_ said on the 5th Jan, 2012

^
do you have a link?

badamj2000

badamj2000 said on the 5th Jan, 2012

Yes, link or it didnt happen?

dreadcircus

dreadcircus said on the 5th Jan, 2012

I Think we should just cancel the whole thing and instead have a school fete instead.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 5th Jan, 2012

^^Won't work. Imagine the issues we'd have trying to come up with an acceptable name for fairy bread.

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 5th Jan, 2012

oh a Maypole ! can you imagine what we could with the Maypole. All those pretty ribbons.

We could call it sprinkle bread Dsquare but it just doesnt have the same ring to it.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 5th Jan, 2012

I was thinking maybe GBLTI wheat slices.

Travis de Jonk

Travis de Jonk said on the 16th Feb, 2012

Watching this clip from FAST FORWARD of what a Straight Mardi Gras would look like, makes me think we have in fact become our own worst nightmare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19HYauZ0Dkc

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