• 87
  • 8946
Image for Sydney rally: "Stop the bashings. Justice now!"

Sydney rally: "Stop thebashings. Justice now!"

Rallying against alleged police brutality at Saturday’s Sydney Mardi Gras, a large, spirited but non-violent crowd gathered tonight to send NSW Police a message.

Organised by activism group Community Action Against Homophobia, chants included “No justice, no peace, stop violent police,” and “Stop police attacks on gays, women and blacks,” as an estimated 2,000 people marched down Oxford Street from Taylor Square to outside Surry Hills Police Station a few blocks nearby and back again.

Tonight’s rally brought together a colourful and diverse crowd, ranging from student activists to those who remember the early days of illegal Mardi Gras protest gatherings. Click to see our photos below.

“I’m proud that we can see something go viral on Wednesday and be able to mobilise all these people so quickly for today,” rally co-organiser Karl Hand told the crowd, speaking of the video showing the confrontation between 18-year-old Mardi Gras reveller Jamie Jackson, which has now been viewed almost 1.4 million times on YouTube.

“We are a proud community and we will not tolerate violence against us.”

Perhaps the most striking speaker at Taylor Square was Kealy Snow (pictured above), whose boyfriend was with her at the scene of the incident and filmed the video. She was heard in the clip saying nothing would happen to the police officer except an “internal investigation,” and the crowd tonight feared she’s been proven right.

“I spoke to Jamie just 15 minutes ago,” she told the rally. “He’s so grateful, scared, but so grateful for your solidarity.

“This is not a protest against the NSW police force. We’re fighting against police brutality. There are a lot of good cops out there, and we wouldn’t be where we are without them.”

Her issue is with the officer who she says punched Jackson and threw him to the ground. “What hasn’t come out yet is that before the filming began, the officer had him by the throat. He [Jackson] tried to get away, like anyone would. Perhaps Jamie didn’t behave well, but it’s not up to that cop to punish him.”

Snow claims that the woman who is alleged by police at the scene to have been assaulted by Jackson, which led to the 18-year-old’s arrest, is not pressing charges, and did not see what the teenager did as assault.

1978 Sydney Mardi Gras marcher Irene Doutney (above) was next to speak, and recognised some kindred spirits in the crowd. Asking for a show of hands “if you’ve been brutilised [by the police],” she saw many: “about half of you.”

“We all have cameras on our phones,” she reminded the rally. “This kind of stuff can’t be hidden anymore. The world is watching.

“We have come a long way since the first parade in 1978. We cannot now go backwards.”

There’s an inherent conflict of interest when police investigate themselves, she added.

“No to violence. No to discrimination. And a big yes to being able to just be ourselves and being treated with respect.”

With the chant “Stop the bashings. Justice now!” the rally soon made its way to Surry Hills Police Station, with police shutting down half of Oxford Street to let them progress safely.

“Our march is a peaceful one, because we’re showing we’re better than the people who bash us,” Karl Hand reminded a few buoyant people in the crowd.

Regarding the rally’s numbers and energy to be a success, he reminded the crowd of the protest’s aims. “We want the police to drop the charges against the people arrested at the Mardi Gras Parade. We want an apology. We want more than just an ‘internal investigation… and we are still waiting for an apology for what happened to Mardi Gras protesters in 1978.

“Black or white, straight or gay, police violence is not ok!”

Video footage of the rally is shown below.

A Community Forum to discuss policing at Sydney Mardi Gras has now been announced for next week.

Senior police are set to join Sydney MP Alex Greenwich and other LGBTI community representatives to initiate a plan to improve policing at future Mardi Gras festivals and events.

The forum has been organised in response to the widely-reported incidents of alleged brutality on Saturday night, as well as other anecdotal evidence of police using excessive force at Mardi Gras events.

“The forum will provide a valuable opportunity for people and organisations affected by these issues to have a full and open discussion about how we can move forward as a community to improve the situation,” explains Greenwich, “and to ensure Sydney Mardi Gras remains the incredible celebration of community, diversity and acceptance which inspires so many people from all over the world.”

UPDATE: Due to strong community interest, the Mardi Gras Policing Forum needs to be moved to a bigger forum, with a new date set – the evening of Tuesday 19 March at the NSW Teachers Federation Conference Centre in Surry Hills. The event will begin at 7pm. Find more details here.

Social

Comments

www.samesame.com.au arrow left
30550
Sep77

Sep77 said on the 8th Mar, 2013

I read that one person there had a sign that said something along the lines of all police are bastards. This will do as much for the point of the march as speakers at Marriage Equality Rallies who proclaim that Barack Obama is a war criminal or "I am straight and I personally don't believe in marriage, but ...". We cannot control what people say, but I do wish that with days to plan, some grey matter were used in the drafting of signs.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 8th Mar, 2013

it was a n amazing rally with a great turn out! atleast 3o00 I would say. I hope no one pays attention to the sneaky bastards who hyjacked it with the giant banner of cops are bastards. all of the speeches expressed clear sentiment which was echoed through the crowd that this was not an attack on all police but a call for independent body of investigation and a need to stop police brutality and misconduct. I saw the banner group at the end and I told them off! as many others did too

glenn1964

glenn1964 said on the 8th Mar, 2013

The organisers should send an apology to the NSW police for that sign that all police are bastards. They allowed it to be in the protest. This whole thing has got out of hand. Yes, the kid shouldnt have been treated like that. There is no evidence at all that this was a homophobic attack by that police officer or any other they are assuming it. Just because it happened at Mardi Gras doesnt mean anything, it could have easily happened at the football. Its now turned into a gay he said she said thing. Lets remember that the police do a wonderful job and tarnishing them all because of a couple of officers is horrible. Before thinking about another protest by rent a crowd lets wait to see the outcome of the investigation and let it take its proper course.

Marko

Marko said on the 8th Mar, 2013



Someones point of view has changed.

sydney25

sydney25 said on the 8th Mar, 2013

My video footage of the rally this evening http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2ozYn_5p94&feature=youtu.be

donnykul

donnykul said on the 8th Mar, 2013

I believe the reputation,to use an old word.Is on the table,I for one hope justice is served in this circumstance.We are all watching.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 8th Mar, 2013

Talk about using grey matter...you obviously have not 1)not been to a Mardi Gras in the last 5 years 2)have not been out on Oxford street 3)Are not GLBTI 4)Are a member of the police force ? or just don't think too much.This issue is much wider than one incident.If you had been at the rally and had seen how many people put their hands up at being harassed,abused etc by the police you would know.And no i'm not rent a crowd (such an old slogan ) and all my friends at the rally were not rent a crowd.We are just normal GAY tax paying citizens of Sydney who have had enough!

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 8th Mar, 2013

And to add some sense to the conversation WHERE was ALEX GREENWICH or the MARDI GRAS board members.Too scared are we of a little protest?Maybe grow some balls like Clover Morre did in the 80's and 90's

Barrin

Barrin said on the 9th Mar, 2013

3000 people? Well done. A better turnout than the marriage rallies which I've consistently said is a non-issue.

ammonite

ammonite said on the 9th Mar, 2013

do we know who the people with the 'cops are bastards' banner actually were?

i think it's hilarious as presumably (i just bet) they consider themselves to be very radical and freethinking, yet they are using the word 'bastard' - a word that decides a person's worth, and whether they are 'legitimate' humans or not, based on the marital status of their parents - basically the very essence of archaic patriarchal society and oppression.

i suppose cracking open a thesaurus would have taken up too much of their precious little brain power.

you couldn't write this sh*t.

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 9th Mar, 2013



ill bite - how the hell has my view changed? I have been calling for reform for a long time! I have never said all police are bad.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 9th Mar, 2013

I'm wondering if Mardi Gras never changed its course and maintained a strong political aspect to the parade, whether there would be a need for protests like this today.

ammonite

ammonite said on the 9th Mar, 2013

could it have stayed that way?

ammonite

ammonite said on the 9th Mar, 2013

"In 1981 the parade was held in summer, leaving Stonewall day in June as a more directly political even. With the rescheduling of Mardi Gras came a declaration of its nature. It was decided that it should be: 'a celebration of coming out, with its main political goal being to demonstrate the size of the gay community, its variety of lifestyles and its right to celebrate in the streets if Sydney so as to enable broadening of support for gay rights'. Decisions taken about the format of the 1981 Mardi Gras, unfortunately, deepened the split between gays and lesbians. Lesbians feared that the inclusion of floats by businesses would result in sexist and racist use of drag. They also felt that the focus would shift away from the political. Having led the attack at the first Mardi Gras, the lesbians increasingly absented themselves from the celebrations, returning in significant numbers only towards the end of the decade."
- Iain Bruce - Unruly Cities?: Order, Disorder p219 - extract from Gay sites and the pink dollar p62-76

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=o5XTUxMSQvgC&lpg=PA213&vq=sydney%20mardi%20gras&pg=PA219#v=onepage&q&f=false

ammonite

ammonite said on the 9th Mar, 2013

^i have no idea if that's true or not

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 9th Mar, 2013

Yes exactely Mardi Gras has been stupid and one wonders why by not choosing to call it at least the G L Mardi Gras In fact it is quite amazing that they have been let to rename it just Mardi Gras but that is done for this year .The interesting bit is they did not make an appearance at the rally on Friday.It was left up to the original 78's to speak.Haven't they dont thier bit.SHAME on you MARDI GRAS.and Shame on you Alex Greenwich.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 10th Mar, 2013

actually think 1938 Nazi germany police in riot gear and sniffer dogs stonewall hotel 8pm friday night nice one guys

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 10th Mar, 2013

or how about carmens remembrance at the g l museum,why don't you just bring hitler with you next time

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 11th Mar, 2013

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l-Tpx9euiWU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=l-Tpx9euiWU

this video shows the banner crew hidden at the back of a very long protest no one saw them

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 11th Mar, 2013

UPDATE: Due to strong community interest, the Mardi Gras Policing Forum needs to be moved to a bigger forum, with a new date set - the evening of Tuesday 19 March. We'll have venue details as soon as they're confirmed.

kirrmy

kirrmy said on the 11th Mar, 2013

Police get away with murder. They make up charges, destroy evidence, and lie in court. Their union defends their impunity. Fuck being nice to them. They will only change when confronted by serious power. Kudos to anyone willing to send a strong message.

mark_

mark_ said on the 11th Mar, 2013

… They will only change when confronted by serious power.…
What kind of serious power?

DavoJimbo

DavoJimbo said on the 11th Mar, 2013

3000? not from those pics...

kirrmy

kirrmy said on the 11th Mar, 2013

By serious power I mean an alliance of communities who openly refuse the legitimacy of the existing police culture, both symbolically and practically. This would need to include a range of positions, ranging from anti-police groups and prison abolitionists, to black deaths in custody campaigners, and youth, homelessness, GLBTI, health, legal and other organisations.

The police will change when they can no longer count on community support. A campaign to do this would not satisfy all interests, and it would involve a range of views and tactics (including various versions of exclusion and non-cooperation) that would test the strength of the solidarity needed. But it would achieve changes. Trying to negotiate when one side holds most of the political power wont.

Matt Akersten

Matt Akersten said on the 12th Mar, 2013

The community forum will now be held on Tuesday 19 March at the NSW Teachers Federation Conference Centre in Surry Hills. The event will begin at 7pm. http://ht.ly/iMwYb

Barrin

Barrin said on the 12th Mar, 2013



You need to register. When I got on to the site there were 129 tickets, but by the time I registered there were 124 so they're going quickly.

http://policecommunityforum.eventbrite.com/#

JayTee

JayTee said on the 12th Mar, 2013

I wonder where Peter (Sydney - not gay or lesbian - Mardi Gras) stands now with his "victory achieved" speech?

ie.

''We fought for this day, the day we could embrace the wider community and be inclusive,'' said the chairman of the Mardi Gras, Peter Urmson.


http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/mardi-gras-festival-goes-straight-and-loses-the-alphabet-soup-20111117-1nl7v.html

Mardi Gras festival goes straight and loses the alphabet soup

Date November 18, 2011

revoltingqueer

revoltingqueer said on the 12th Mar, 2013

There is a statement published on indymedia(dot)com(dot)au from those that carried the banners that have outraged some homoconservative, mostly middle class, mostly white men. I suggest anyone condemning these banners and those carrying them read it to understand their point of view, you will see that some grey matter was in fact used after all.

Crazymikey they didn't hijack anything, it was a rally against police brutality for gods sake, different individuals and groups had different opinions, and brought along all different signs and banners to promote that opinion. Was every banner and sign except CAAH's banner a hijack attempt, or just the ones that you happen to disagree with? And they were not hiding at the back, one of the three banners was carried at the back specifically to prevent police from using their horses to push against and intimidate those near the end of the demo, as we have seen the police do many times in the past. Another two banners were carried along the side of the demo parallel to the line of riot police. The size of the banners were about more then just having a visible message, large banners such as these are strategic and very useful in blocking police attempts at pushing against or rushing into the demo from the back or the sides.

And glenn, internal police investigations are a complete farce, they deserve no apologies.

Ammonite, while i know that those who made the banner did discuss the fact that word bastard does have a pretty shitty origin, no one actually uses it to refer to someone without married parents anymore. Plus, ACAB is used all over the world as an anti police slogan, banners and graffiti bearing the acronym, or full slogan can be seen everywhere from New York to Berlin, Indonesia to Egypt, England to Ecuador, its true. Just look it up online, ACAB has a long an international history dating back decades, its a true internationalist statement, and there are many people, particularly teenagers here who know the slogan well, you may not have noticed but ACAB is actually sprayed on walls across Australia by hundreds of different teenagers. There was even an Italian movie called "ACAB: All cops are Bastards" that came out just last year, (its quite good), and a Malaysian punk band called ACAB. Everything I have said is true, and can be looked up. So don't pretend someone carrying an ACAB banner is actually a surprising or shocking thing, its plain ordinary.

Some queers have very legitimate reasons for feeling this way, so can i suggest those attacking them stop acting like cops by telling them what they are allowed to express in public.

ammonite

ammonite said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Yes they do. What you are saying here is that the original meaning of the world is now archaic - this is incorrect and easily disproved as it remains the primary definition of the word in the majority of printed english dictionaries and online dictionaries owned by publishing companies.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard?s=t
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bastard
But even more damningly it is almost exclusively the primary definition in publicly edited dictionaries and encyclopedias;
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bastard
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bastard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard
Even if there was a consensus amongst the printed dictionaries... if that meaning is now archaic as you claim, there is no possible way it would be the primary definition on a website like urbandictionary with it's sole purpose of being a reference and record of slang.



So your excuse for their blatant hypocrisy and embarrassing vacuity is that many people all around the world are also either hypocritical and vacuous, or ignorant of a foreign language they are nevertheless spraying and waving and filming and singing all over the place? :eek:

Also what does that say about globalisation, the devaluing of minority languages, colonialism, and western 'privilege'?

Marko

Marko said on the 13th Mar, 2013



I'm willing to send a strong message, here it is: That is by far the most fucking stupid comment I've ever read on this forum, you are a fucking disgrace to our democracy. The police are here to protect you, who do you run to if someone is trying to beat/kill you? Who do you call when someone's stolen from you? Who do you look towards to to enforce our laws in order to keep your miserable life safe? THE POLICE YOU FUCKING MUTT!

flounder

flounder said on the 13th Mar, 2013



You're an insult to frogs. :rolleyes:

ammonite

ammonite said on the 13th Mar, 2013

http://i741.photobucket.com/albums/xx52/frita1125/kermit.jpghttp://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Kermit_c57b3f_1647612.jpg

ammonite

ammonite said on the 13th Mar, 2013

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--V1EFjx1Ifc/UKKuHcLw2MI/AAAAAAAAAWQ/nk4L9smpqHU/s1600/bad-miss-piggy.jpg

Barrin

Barrin said on the 13th Mar, 2013



You'd be funny if you didn't take yourself so seriously. Have you ever even known a cop? I have... best drugs ever. And I was only buying leftovers.

When Roni Levi was shot on Bondi Beach in 1997 the two officers responsible had been partying all night and were both later sacked due to cocaine charges.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/excop-rebuilds-life-where-he-shot-a-man-dead/2005/08/06/1123125942793.html

Tasers were eventually introduced because of the death of Roni Levi. That didn't help Roberto Curti who died after being tasered 14 times by officers who were found to be inadequately trained.

So it's grand that you feel protected but I really wonder what it is you're basing those feelings on?

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Yes they do. What you are saying here is that the original meaning of the world is now archaic - this is incorrect and easily disproved as it remains the primary definition of the word in the majority of printed english dictionaries and online dictionaries owned by publishing companies.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bastard?s=t
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bastard
But even more damningly it is almost exclusively the primary definition in publicly edited dictionaries and encyclopedias;
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bastard
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bastard
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard
Even if there was a consensus amongst the printed dictionaries... if that meaning is now archaic as you claim, there is no possible way it would be the primary definition on a website like urbandictionary with it's sole purpose of being a reference and record of slang.



So your excuse for their blatant hypocrisy and embarrassing vacuity is that many people all around the world are also either hypocritical and vacuous, or ignorant of a foreign language they are nevertheless spraying and waving and filming and singing all over the place? :eek:

Also what does that say about globalisation, the devaluing of minority languages, colonialism, and western 'privilege'?

Ammi I appreciate your passion, but I think you failed to notice in the revolting one's post that hundreds of TEENAGERS have used that acronym. Teenagers Ammi. You know, people like this

http://www.news.com.au/national-news...-1226595243339

Surely they can't be wrong. They're teenagers.

Light-Bearer

Light-Bearer said on the 13th Mar, 2013

TAKE THAT BACK - OLD MAN.... oh wait...

TheOldie

TheOldie said on the 13th Mar, 2013

You'd be funny if you didn't take yourself so seriously. Have you ever even known a cop? I have... best drugs ever. And I was only buying leftovers.

When Roni Levi was shot on Bondi Beach in 1997 the two officers responsible had been partying all night and were both later sacked due to cocaine charges.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/excop-rebuilds-life-where-he-shot-a-man-dead/2005/08/06/1123125942793.html

Tasers were eventually introduced because of the death of Roni Levi. That didn't help Roberto Curti who died after being tasered 14 times by officers who were found to be inadequately trained.

So it's grand that you feel protected but I really wonder what it is you're basing those feelings on?

know cops as friends

been picked up and charged by cops

all were good to me , treated me well etc

am not stupid enough to say the Police are 100% perfect or even more stupid to say they are 100% bastards either.

They make mistakes just like the rest of us. Lets hope they learn from those mistakes.

revoltingqueer

revoltingqueer said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Ammonite, the 'publicly edited' dictionaries just take thier definitions straight from printed ones, and a lot of the people who use urban dictionary (completely miss the point and) simply copy and paste definitions straight from the printed dictionaries, as much of the 20 pages of bastard definitions there show.

As you surely know, in its actual daily use, bastard almost never refers to whether someones parents are or were married or not. It is used widely and constantly as a generic insult, or sometimes as a term of endearment. Bastard also (particularly as bastardisation or bastardised) refers quite specifically to something being corrupted or corrupt, something that can easily be applied to police. Also in somewhere like Australia, no one besides a few crazy religious nuts at all care whether someone was born to married parents or not, certainly not those carrying the banner.

I also don't see how insulting police is at all hypocritical or vacuous. Also, on the point of globalisation, i strongly oppose economic globalisation, or more specifically neoliberalism, and western/US cultural hegemony. But i would not say that the spread of ACAB was spread through dominant and oppressive economic and media channels. ACAB did not come from the USA but from england and was used as a working class youth slogan. It became popular amongst young english football(soccer) fans and then spread through europe and the rest of world through international football games where ACAB banners are a staple. ACAB was not spread through Western TV beaming around the world, but by young (often working class) football fans meeting each other at games across the world and recognising their common hatred of police. Everywhere football/soccer is played ACAB is known. Sinse the 70's ACAB has also been spread through the international punk culture, with hundreds of punk bands across the world singing songs called ACAB since the 70's, and ACAB patches can be found on clothing of young punks from Germany to Jakarta.

While you can say that it is unfortunate that an english slogan has spread and not one of another language, you should also concede that English has adopted countless words from other languages, and so have other languages taken words from english, in particular english swear words such as 'fuck' 'shit' and 'bastard'. In most places where bastard is used, people would not even know it can also refer to a child of unmarried parents, but that hardly makes them ignorant. Words and languages are living and not forever grounded to single definitions, many english words once had completely different meanings. Words such as 'fag' 'poof' and 'queer' were (and still often are) insults hurled at us by homophobes, yet many us now wear those labels with pride, are those of us who call ourselves queer simply 'ignorant' that it has also been used to insult us? I don't think so.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

sad,how australia has degenerated into this moronic hell of nonsense

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

GLBTI do not have equal rights end of story.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

The police presence at Mardi Gras and on Oxford Stree is like NAZI Germany ATM end of story

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

the violence used against jamie was so excessive it could be out of NAZI Germany end of story

Bar Wench

Bar Wench said on the 13th Mar, 2013



Go on, bugger off then...

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

if the police cannot deal with words on a banner then thats too bad end of story

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

as a gay person living in Sydney,the regulations,policing,restrictions,non equality is appalling end of story

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

no its because of people like u BAR W that this country is like it is.Too much power with too few people.Just look at our dear freinds Eddy O and co.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

actually no its worse than that ,its pure stupidity like people like you Bar W.Thats why we have no equal rights etc etc

Marko

Marko said on the 13th Mar, 2013







If you don't know the difference between our police force and NAZI GERMANY, then I strongly suggest you start reading up on history you little muppet!



Pete you keep saying "end of story" why then do you fucking bother with continuing to repost here?

You'd be funny if you didn't take yourself so seriously. Have you ever even known a cop? I have... best drugs ever. And I was only buying leftovers.

When Roni Levi was shot on Bondi Beach in 1997 the two officers responsible had been partying all night and were both later sacked due to cocaine charges.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/excop-rebuilds-life-where-he-shot-a-man-dead/2005/08/06/1123125942793.html

Tasers were eventually introduced because of the death of Roni Levi. That didn't help Roberto Curti who died after being tasered 14 times by officers who were found to be inadequately trained.

So it's grand that you feel protected but I really wonder what it is you're basing those feelings on?

I know a few cops, one of my mates on here was a cop, I have two cousins who are officers, my ex girlfriend's dad is a cop. So yes I know a few cops. I also know that without them there at Mardi Gras, homophobes could do whatever they pleased, that includes from heckling to bashing. They once were brutal in their approach to our community, especially because it was illegal for us to be who we are at the time. However people with an attitude towards authority figures need only to grow the fuck up and move on. Without them (the police), as a society we'd all be fucked.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

So lets just summarise:
GLBTI do not have equal rights end of story.
The police presence at Mardi Gras and on Oxford Stree is like NAZI Germany ATM end of story
The violence used against jamie was so excessive it could be out of NAZI Germany end of story
If the police cannot deal with words on a banner then thats too bad end of story
As a gay person living in Sydney,the regulations,policing,restrictions,non equality is appalling end of story

Marko

Marko said on the 13th Mar, 2013

You seldomly end the stories you're telling don't you?

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Yes its beacuse of idiots like you that things have to get repeated so you actually realise the facts

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

So just in case you didn't get it the last time:

GLBTI do not have equal rights end of story.
The police presence at Mardi Gras and on Oxford Stree is like NAZI Germany ATM end of story
The violence used against jamie was so excessive it could be out of NAZI Germany end of story
If the police cannot deal with words on a banner then thats too bad end of story
As a gay person living in Sydney,the regulations,policing,restrictions,non equality is appalling end of story

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

And you my friend Marko shouldn't be talking about stories...

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

and just for the record I don't think GLBTI rights are funny

Marko

Marko said on the 13th Mar, 2013



I like a good story, but unfortunately for me you're spinning a senseless one.

So just in case you didn't get it the last time:

GLBTI do not have equal rights end of story.
The police presence at Mardi Gras and on Oxford Stree is like NAZI Germany ATM end of story
The violence used against jamie was so excessive it could be out of NAZI Germany end of story
If the police cannot deal with words on a banner then thats too bad end of story
As a gay person living in Sydney,the regulations,policing,restrictions,non equality is appalling end of story

Thank you princess, I needed that re-cap.



And what are the facts? That Jaime assaulted two officers of the law, whom I might add have the same rights as you and I, in the sense that they have the right to self defence? That a bunch of wankers such as yourself and CrazedMike called to arms over this event without knowing the full facts before judging? Tell me the facts cause fuck knows I waited until I knew the facts from both sides before I judged, clearly yourself and many others did not.

You know there's a reason why juries are expected to be impartial before deciding judgement upon the guilty, and this is a good example of why they need to be impartial.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 13th Mar, 2013

I've sucked a couple of cops off in my life and I liked it! :D

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Yes talking about repeatiing information ..you obviously have not 1)not been to a Mardi Gras in the last 5 years 2)have not been out on Oxford street 3)Are not GLBTI 4)Are a member of the police force ? or just don't think too much.This issue is much wider than one incident.If you had been at the rally and had seen how many people put their hands up at being harassed,abused etc by the police you would know.And no i'm not rent a crowd (such an old slogan ) and all my friends at the rally were not rent a crowd.We are just normal GAY tax paying citizens of Sydney who have had enough! And yes Marko we tax payers are probably paying your wages too.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

Now those are the kinda FACTS i'm talking about

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 13th Mar, 2013

And those are the FACTS END OF STORY

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 13th Mar, 2013



*waves hand*

I've been to all Mardi Gras in the last five years, I'm on Oxford Street EVERY DAY, I'm gay, I'm not a member of the police force and I've been a victim of homophobic violence by a civilian (and the NSW police treated me with respect, dignity and compassion when I reported the incident) and I will say that I have never had any trouble with the NSW police, nor have I ever witnessed any police harassment, abuse or brutality. In fact I have always seen professionalism and fairness demonstrated by the NSW police force.

A lot of this anti-police noise at the moment is coming from people who are disaffected by society or have a grudge against the police, usually because they have fallen foul of the law.

Marko

Marko said on the 13th Mar, 2013



I just think you should know that I laughed at this statement. Your taxes also pay the cops salary, just thought you should know, that WE PAY THEM TO PROTECT US. Although I doubt that will get through to you.

As for your number system 1, I don't need to have attended Mardi Gras to know what being a member of this community is like. 2, I don't need to walk down Oxford street to know what it's like to be a member of this community. 3 I happen to be bisexual(not closeted), fuck you very much. 4, I am not, nor have I ever been a member of the police force and I can think enough to allow me to judge a situation I WASN'T ACTUALLY AT from the outside, unlike your self serving self.

Once again it's wankers like yourself that seem to think that hate crimes can only happen where you live, on oxford street. This suggests you have no regard for members of our community outside that city's limits. For that you're a self serving wanker. I'm sure the Crazed one can find much in common with you.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 13th Mar, 2013




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3khTntOxX-k

flounder

flounder said on the 13th Mar, 2013

You'd be funny if you didn't take yourself so seriously. Have you ever even known a cop? I have... best drugs ever. And I was only buying leftovers.

When Roni Levi was shot on Bondi Beach in 1997 the two officers responsible had been partying all night and were both later sacked due to cocaine charges.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/excop-rebuilds-life-where-he-shot-a-man-dead/2005/08/06/1123125942793.html

Tasers were eventually introduced because of the death of Roni Levi. That didn't help Roberto Curti who died after being tasered 14 times by officers who were found to be inadequately trained.

So it's grand that you feel protected but I really wonder what it is you're basing those feelings on?


So it's grand that you feel protected but I really wonder what it is you're basing those feelings on?

I think hes basing those feelings on the vast overwhelming majority of good decent cops out there who are serving and protecting the fucking community, not the isolated bad cop shit stories any fool can dredge up.

Have you ever even known a cop?

Yeah mate hundreds and fucking hundreds, I was myself for a number of years. Its insulting to hear your condemnation of an entire profession, men and women who put their fucking lives on the line every day to protect public like you.

Anyway go your hardest police are an easy target even for you.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013



And what are the facts? That Jaime assaulted two officers of the law, whom I might add have the same rights as you and I, in the sense that they have the right to self defence? That a bunch of wankers such as yourself and CrazedMike called to arms over this event without knowing the full facts before judging? Tell me the facts cause fuck knows I waited until I knew the facts from both sides before I judged, clearly yourself and many others did not.

You know there's a reason why juries are expected to be impartial before deciding judgement upon the guilty, and this is a good example of why they need to be impartial.

And here's another fact: when this started you accused us of being on a bandwagon but now Jamie has become your bandwagon. You're determined to focus on him and not look at the wider issues.

Why was Oxford Street kept closed after the parade forcing people onto crowded footpaths?
Why was Oxford Street still closed hours later frustrating people's efforts to walk home?
Why were the police abusive and unhelpful regarding the above two points? How is that protecting us?
Why was the police presence increased this year with more officers brought in from places like Parramatta?

Then at the Opera House last night I saw this...

http://www.altmedia.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Orpheus-in-the-Underworld_570x320_8-512x287.jpg

Yet at Mardi Gras participants in similar costumes were threatened by police with a charge if indecent exposure!

Only the police can explain what policy they were acting under and the FACT is they aren't.

Bar Wench

Bar Wench said on the 14th Mar, 2013

Why was Oxford Street kept closed after the parade forcing people onto crowded footpaths?
Why was Oxford Street still closed hours later frustrating people's efforts to walk home?
Why were the police abusive and unhelpful regarding the above two points? How is that protecting us?
Why was the police presence increased this year with more officers brought in from places like Parramatta?.

Honestly, I think whether the gay and lesbian community wants it or not, the Mardi Gras has become a bit of a spectacle for some more unsavoury types, as well as a great excuse to get off your tits and cause mischief. Unfortunately for us, that means the policing of the event has probably gotten a little more heavy-handed over the years because of that. Thank god my hotel was right above oxford street and I didn't have to brave that crowd. I can image it would be trying for even the most patient of people.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 14th Mar, 2013



Then at the Opera House last night I saw this...

http://www.altmedia.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Orpheus-in-the-Underworld_570x320_8-512x287.jpg

Yet at Mardi Gras participants in similar costumes were threatened by police with a charge if indecent exposure!

Only the police can explain what policy they were acting under and the FACT is they aren't.

Possibly because a performance at the Opera House is in a "private" venue where people have chosen to be knowing what they are going to see as opposed to a public street?

Same way that you can run around somewhere like Bodyline with your wang out for everyone to see without being arrested for indecent exposure whereas if you did the same thing in Pitt St Mall some people might be just little put off.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013



Those aren't new observations Bar Wench. From my very first time (93 or 94) I experienced how uncomfortable and scary the crowd is when the parade has finished. I've always told those going for the first time that if they haven't got tix for the party then have a plan B to get away from the area as soon as possible. But at least the barriers always came down and the crowd could disperse quickly. What changed this year?

Has the parade become too big and too difficult to manage? Should there be fewer entrants? A shorter route? A different route? More scaffolding with seating? A zero alcohol policy?.... Nothing new about those questions either and let's revisit them if we need to. I have no problem with any of that. Empty platitudes about police protecting us just sounds defeatist to me.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

Possibly because a performance at the Opera House is in a "private" venue where people have chosen to be knowing what they are going to see as opposed to a public street?

Same way that you can run around somewhere like Bodyline with your wang out for everyone to see without being arrested for indecent exposure whereas if you did the same thing in Pitt St Mall some people might be just little put off.

I've no doubt that production of Orpheus was deliberately scheduled to coincide with the Mardi Gras season. Your comparison with Bodyline is ridiculous but since you've decided to wade into the indecency debate I'll ask the same question I asked Marko: Along with the leather community, who else would you like to see off the streets?

Apologies for not posting the link for the opera earlier.
http://www.altmedia.net.au/orpheus-in-the-underworld/71827

According to that review some people are put off by how 'gay' the production is. This is the operetta that gave the world the Can-Can. It's as gay as.... well wearing chaps to Mardi Gras.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 14th Mar, 2013

I've no doubt that production of Orpheus was deliberately scheduled to coincide with the Mardi Gras season. Your comparison with Bodyline is ridiculous but since you've decided to wade into the indecency debate I'll ask the same question I asked Marko: Along with the leather community, who else would you like to see off the streets?

Apologies for not posting the link for the opera earlier.
http://www.altmedia.net.au/orpheus-in-the-underworld/71827

According to that review some people are put off by how 'gay' the production is. This is the operetta that gave the world the Can-Can. It's as gay as.... well wearing chaps to Mardi Gras.

If you can point out to me where I suggested the leather community should be kept off the streets I'd be happy to answer your question but unfortunately I can't really see where you came to that conclusion. Of course you could just be making assumptions about my personal views on whether weraing chaps in public is or isn't appropriate when I made no such statement, but you know what they say about assuming and asses.

Also not really sure why my analogy of public versus private nudity is any more ridiculous than your question of why being dressed (or undressed) a certain way on stage in the Opera House is treated differently to dressing the same way on a public street, but again feel free to clarify.

Marko

Marko said on the 14th Mar, 2013

Don't worry DS this lad seems to enjoy making broad assumptions. You get that with people that carry on like muppets.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

If you can point out to me where I suggested the leather community should be kept off the streets I'd be happy to answer your question but unfortunately I can't really see where you came to that conclusion.


What better way to tell them they're not welcome than by agreeing that the police should charge them with indecent exposure.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 14th Mar, 2013



See, again you're making assumptions. Nowhere did I comment on whether I agree or disagree that the police should charge them with indecent exposure, I was simply answering you question as to why someone dressed a certain way on a public street may be charged with indecent exposure where a person dressed the same way on stage in the Opera House may not.

Pointing out the reality of a situation is not the same as expressing one's opinion of it.

Dsquare

Dsquare said on the 14th Mar, 2013



I know, but it's fun helping them to dig their holes.

MrAsh

MrAsh said on the 14th Mar, 2013



A couple of years ago I saw two twenty something guys walking around Oxford St after the parade in those Borat mankinis. The thing was they exposed a lot more, especially when the bent over or sat down than what was displayed in the parade. :rolleyes:

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

See, again you're making assumptions. Nowhere did I comment on whether I agree or disagree that the police should charge them with indecent exposure, I was simply answering you question as to why someone dressed a certain way on a public street may be charged with indecent exposure where a person dressed the same way on stage in the Opera House may not.

Pointing out the facts of a situation is not the same as expressing one's opinion of it.

But this isn't just about a 'public street' (talk about broad assumptions). It's Mardi Gras! It has to be explained to gay people on a gay web site!

Over a week ago I read a comment on the Star Observer from a Wayne Daubney saying some of the leather community were threatened with indecent exposure. The name rings a bell, I think Wayne was once a journalist or editor in the gay press - someone you'd expect to be careful about exaggeration or lies. Nonetheless I was sceptical. Guys in chaps being told to cover up at Mardi Gras? What? Then I heard it from he horse's mouth, friends of mine who've been marching for years were told to cover up or they'd be charged.

Now, say whatever you want about this but there are two obvious questions for me and rather than argue for the sake of arguing I'd ask you to consider too....

1. After all these years why do the police suddenly have an issue with Mardi Gras costumes?

2. What is the future of Mardi Gras if this is to continue?

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

The silence is deafening.
If people don't like 'broad assumptions' how come it's the only thing they respond too?

flounder

flounder said on the 14th Mar, 2013

But this isn't just about a 'public street' (talk about broad assumptions). It's Mardi Gras! It has to be explained to gay people on a gay web site!

Over a week ago I read a comment on the Star Observer from a Wayne Daubney saying some of the leather community were threatened with indecent exposure. The name rings a bell, I think Wayne was once a journalist or editor in the gay press - someone you'd expect to be careful about exaggeration or lies. Nonetheless I was sceptical. Guys in chaps being told to cover up at Mardi Gras? What? Then I heard it from he horse's mouth, friends of mine who've been marching for years were told to cover up or they'd be charged.

Now, say whatever you want about this but there are two obvious questions for me and rather than argue for the sake of arguing I'd ask you to consider too....

1. After all these years why do the police suddenly have an issue with Mardi Gras costumes?

2. What is the future of Mardi Gras if this is to continue?


After all these years why do the police suddenly have an issue with Mardi Gras costumes?

When you say police I assume once again its another generalisation or broad sweeping statement meaning the entire police force?

The law, all law, is up for interpretation. Lawyers do it, judges do it, magistrates do it, police do it. There opinions often vary, that just a fact. You have a situation where a couple of police interpreted the dress of your leather guys to be over the limit, thats their right as serving police officers.

Police have to make snap decisions all the time, unlike lawyers they dont have the luxury of sitting down and studying case law or the act before they call a situation .

The leather guys could walk past another couple of police who deem their outfits to be ok and say nothing, thats just fucking life. Its not homophobic nor does it doesnt give you the right to label all police as having an issue with Mardi Gras costumes.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013



The leather guys could walk past another couple of police who deem their outfits to be ok and say nothing, thats just fucking life.

No, it's fucking inconsistent.
You're probably now on another thread admiring lofty statements about 'equality'.
The best satirist in the world couldn't exaggerate this hypocrisy.

flounder

flounder said on the 14th Mar, 2013

No, it's fucking inconsistent.
You're probably now on another thread admiring lofty statements about 'equality'.
The best satirist in the world couldn't exaggerate this hypocrisy.

You muppit, lifes inconsistant, suck it up princess.:rolleyes:

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

Incidentally, my use of 'police' is no different to other media reports and debate, both mainstream and gay.

"Allegations of police excessive force at Mardi Gras"
http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/allegations-of-police-excessive-force-at-mardi-gras-20130305-2fjmv.html

Mardi Gras police assault allegations
http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/local-news/new-south-wales-news/2013/03/05/mardi-gras-police-assault-allegations/99376

Hundreds to march against Mardi Gras police actions
http://gaynewsnetwork.com.au/news/northern-territory/10688-hundreds-to-march-against-mardi-gras-police-actions.html

Are the rules different for SameSame?

Barrin

Barrin said on the 14th Mar, 2013

Oooh... apparently not:

Bashed at Mardi Gras police assault claims
http://www.samesame.com.au/news/local/9522/Bashed-at-Mardi-Gras-Police-assault-claims.htm

crazzymikey

crazzymikey said on the 15th Mar, 2013


Crazymikey they didn't hijack anything, it was a rally against police brutality for gods sake, different individuals and groups had different opinions, and brought along all different signs and banners to promote that opinion. Was every banner and sign except CAAH's banner a hijack attempt, or just the ones that you happen to disagree with? And they were not hiding at the back, one of the three banners was carried at the back specifically to prevent police from using their horses to push against and intimidate those near the end of the demo, as we have seen the police do many times in the past. Another two banners were carried along the side of the demo parallel to the line of riot police. The size of the banners were about more then just having a visible message, large banners such as these are strategic and very useful in blocking police attempts at pushing against or rushing into the demo from the back or the sides.


what a load of bullshit!

the events page made it clear that this was a peaceful protest and stipulated that this was not an attack on all police. Also the speeches and the organisers all made this clear at the rally. The crowd responded the most to this as well.

MOST people are very upset about this because that sign clearly went against why most were there. The police that directed traffic and guided the rally were very well behaved and respectful and did not deserve to be subjected to that sign. The very definition of rail roading a rally is using your own views and agendas to usurp the message of the majority. Using a minority view to hyjack the presence of the rally numbers.

It's people like you who are responsible for the bad publicity the rally has received. It took away all credibility and took away the rallies attempt to gain public support and work on getting reforms made. Instead it declared war on all police and the very establishment. No matter what you think this is a futile and pointless attempt that has only shifted more public sympathy for the police force and discredited the gay community.

U are clearly mentally challenged if you cannot see this.

pete1000

pete1000 said on the 15th Mar, 2013

And the there's the 50 or more gay 'deaths' presumably murders that have happened over the last 30 years.And none were investigated properly.Case in point : Scott Johnson who's death had to be investigated privately by his family at great expense.Now after 30 years there's a hunt on for his murderer.And you wonder why there is such distrust,anger etc etc towards the police force.
Homophobia is the least of it.So please don't try argue about stupid little signs compared to 50 gay men's deaths probably murders that have been swept under the carpet.

mark_

mark_ said on the 15th Mar, 2013

(the incident of the Bears' buttocks this year reminds me of the incident of the missing collar-stud in EM Forster's A Passage to India— it's a random occurrence and no excuse to damn a nation)

zebra23

zebra23 said on the 16th Mar, 2013

There seems to be quite a number of 'incidents' arising out of this year's MG.

Barrin

Barrin said on the 16th Mar, 2013

Sydney used to be one of the great gay cities of the world. But we've lost venue after venue, Oxford Street is a dangerous ghost of it's former self and now it seems the rot has reached Mardi Gras itself. A lot of the comments here demonstrate how we we got there.... Nobody cares. And even that wouldn't bother me except no one has the guts to say it outright.
We get child-like hand claps for 'the police who protect us'.
Specious moralising about public verses private behaviour.
And this gem: 'Life's inconsistent. Suck it up.'
Why isn't that last bit of advice handed out to people think the marriage laws are unfair?

Barrin

Barrin said on the 18th Mar, 2013

Another one for the naysayers....

Colin Richardson · Works at Oh I Wish, Medically Retired!
We had a blind lady with us, we couldn't cross at the Taylor Square crossing because of a mob of drunken yobbos, we moved down towards the Stonewall and I asked a Senior Constable politely if we or he could escorted our friend and her Guide Dog across Oxford St. The reply shocked me! We were told to go back to the crossing in a most abrupt manner and he made it quite clear by his demeanour that to argue the point would have serious consequences. I have not seen the Police with such an aggressive manner in all my 24 Mardi Gras. I was disgusted with their behaviour.
Reply ·
· 7 March at 20:31

http://www.starobserver.com.au/news/local-news/new-south-wales-news/2013/03/05/mardi-gras-police-assault-allegations/99376